* Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? @ 2014-10-17 16:13 Harry Putnam 2014-10-17 16:36 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-10-18 14:10 ` Dave Goldberg 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2014-10-17 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding How would I go about sending mail in such a way as to capture the smtp output like one can do with `mailx -v' I'd like to collect that smtp output in a buffer as I send mail. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-17 16:13 Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? Harry Putnam @ 2014-10-17 16:36 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-10-17 21:37 ` Harry Putnam 2014-10-18 14:10 ` Dave Goldberg 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-10-17 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Harry Putnam; +Cc: ding Hi, On 17/10/2014 20:13 +0400, Harry Putnam wrote: > How would I go about sending mail in such a way as to capture the smtp > output like one can do with `mailx -v' > > I'd like to collect that smtp output in a buffer as I send mail. C-h v smtpmail-debug-info -- Filipp ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-17 16:36 ` Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-10-17 21:37 ` Harry Putnam 2014-10-18 0:37 ` Filipp Gunbin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2014-10-17 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin@fastmail.fm> writes: > Hi, > > On 17/10/2014 20:13 +0400, Harry Putnam wrote: > >> How would I go about sending mail in such a way as to capture the smtp >> output like one can do with `mailx -v' >> >> I'd like to collect that smtp output in a buffer as I send mail. > > C-h v smtpmail-debug-info Haven't found anything about that on couple of different hosts running emacs-24.3 Is that something new or do I need something particular loaded to see it? I checked emacs.info with Index search with no luck either. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-17 21:37 ` Harry Putnam @ 2014-10-18 0:37 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-10-18 11:56 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-11-01 18:35 ` Harry Putnam 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-10-18 0:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Harry Putnam; +Cc: ding Harry, On 18/10/2014 01:37 +0400, Harry Putnam wrote: > Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin@fastmail.fm> writes: > >> C-h v smtpmail-debug-info > > Haven't found anything about that on couple of different hosts running > emacs-24.3 > > Is that something new or do I need something particular loaded to see > it? > > I checked emacs.info with Index search with no luck either. Check the file list/mail/smtpmail.el in the emacs installation directory. It should be there. Maybe that variable appeared very recently, but I don't think so. Setting that variable to `t' should give you what you want. -- Filipp ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-18 0:37 ` Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-10-18 11:56 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-11-01 18:35 ` Harry Putnam 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-10-18 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Harry Putnam; +Cc: ding On 18/10/2014 04:37 +0400, Filipp Gunbin wrote: > Check the file list/mail/smtpmail.el in the emacs installation ^^^^ lisp, of course :) -- Filipp ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-18 0:37 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-10-18 11:56 ` Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-11-01 18:35 ` Harry Putnam 2014-11-01 19:02 ` W. Greenhouse 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2014-11-01 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin@fastmail.fm> writes: > Harry, > > On 18/10/2014 01:37 +0400, Harry Putnam wrote: > >> Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin@fastmail.fm> writes: >> >>> C-h v smtpmail-debug-info >> >> Haven't found anything about that on couple of different hosts running >> emacs-24.3 >> >> Is that something new or do I need something particular loaded to see >> it? >> >> I checked emacs.info with Index search with no luck either. > > Check the file list/mail/smtpmail.el in the emacs installation > directory. It should be there. Maybe that variable appeared very > recently, but I don't think so. > > Setting that variable to `t' should give you what you want. Thanks... I see that is not going to happen in my setup. DaveG has pointed out that my sending setup probably is responsible. I use this in ~/.gnus (setq mail-user-agent 'gnus-user-agent) for roughly 1000 yrs or so. It ended up meaning sendmail for yrs... but now using exim4 on debian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-11-01 18:35 ` Harry Putnam @ 2014-11-01 19:02 ` W. Greenhouse 2014-11-02 0:46 ` Harry Putnam 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: W. Greenhouse @ 2014-11-01 19:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding-smP1P7uqpqc Harry Putnam <reader-kFrNdAxtuftBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> writes: [...] > Thanks... I see that is not going to happen in my setup. DaveG has > pointed out that my sending setup probably is responsible. > > I use this in ~/.gnus > (setq mail-user-agent 'gnus-user-agent) > for roughly 1000 yrs or so. > > It ended up meaning sendmail for yrs... but now using exim4 on debian. Yeah, smtpmail-debug-info is only going to be relevant if you are using the all-elisp "smtpmail.el" smtp client to send outgoing mail; mail sent to sendmail/exim/postfix/etc. via their /usr/sbin/sendmail executables wouldn't cross that bridge. Perhaps you could customize `message-sendmail-extra-arguments' to a value that would log more verbosely. something like "-D some-file.txt" would send error reporting info there in sendmail's sendmail; perhaps exim has a similar setting. -- Good luck, WGG ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-11-01 19:02 ` W. Greenhouse @ 2014-11-02 0:46 ` Harry Putnam 2014-11-02 23:55 ` W. Greenhouse 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2014-11-02 0:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> writes: > Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes: > > [...] > >> Thanks... I see that is not going to happen in my setup. DaveG has >> pointed out that my sending setup probably is responsible. >> >> I use this in ~/.gnus >> (setq mail-user-agent 'gnus-user-agent) >> for roughly 1000 yrs or so. >> >> It ended up meaning sendmail for yrs... but now using exim4 on debian. > > Yeah, smtpmail-debug-info is only going to be relevant if you are using > the all-elisp "smtpmail.el" smtp client to send outgoing mail; mail sent > to sendmail/exim/postfix/etc. via their /usr/sbin/sendmail executables > wouldn't cross that bridge. [...] checking in to the snipped bit: `nessage-sendmail-extra-arguments' Before getting too involved in the snipped suggestion... I think I would like to ask at this point if users of smtpmail.el can offer any arguments in favor of that method as apposed to others. I know at one time, some years ago, it was about the only way to use gnus on windows. But I'm not dealing with windows in this discussion. Perhaps there are good reasons to do it and I would be better off spending my time getting setup for that. Any speed or cpu differences of note? Any other points infavor of all smtpmail.el? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-11-02 0:46 ` Harry Putnam @ 2014-11-02 23:55 ` W. Greenhouse 2014-11-03 16:59 ` Harry Putnam 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: W. Greenhouse @ 2014-11-02 23:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding-smP1P7uqpqc Harry Putnam <reader-kFrNdAxtuftBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> writes: [...] > Perhaps there are good reasons to do it and I would be better off > spending my time getting setup for that. > > Any speed or cpu differences of note? > > Any other points infavor of all smtpmail.el? As I see it, the pros of smtpmail.el are: 1. Fewer moving parts--sometimes following the "UNIX philosophy" to the extreme for a problem like email means that it's hard to know what has failed when you change something in your delivery pipeline and it stops working: Is your MTA using the right smtp server for each of your outgoing mail addresses? Is mail getting stuck in a queue somewhere and you'd never know unless you poked around in your logs? ...etc, etc. 2. Emacs can store SMTP authentication credentials in an encrypted file, instead of leaving them sitting in plaintext on the disk (I know that some MTAs can store them as salted and hashed values after which you can delete the plaintext original, but Emacs with authinfo.gpg is even better). 3. Fairly tuneable behavior as far as TLS usage. Emacs unfortunately has nasty "fail open" behavior as a TLS client per default, and there are a couple of bug reports open about this, but it is possible to tune it to implement a "Trust on First Use" or certificate pinning scheme, which will "fail closed" if an unfamiliar certificate is seen (similar to the behavior of openssh when seeing a new host). See https://blogs.fsfe.org/jens.lechtenboerger/2014/03/23/certificate-pinning-for-gnu-emacs/ for an example. The cons are: 1. Delivery through smtpmail.el is synchronous, blocks your Emacs, and can be slow. Normally when using the /usr/sbin/sendmail binary on a *nix system, you are only copying standard output to a queue file, and delivery happens separately in the background when the mailserver flushes the queue, so this can be faster (and more importantly feels faster because you aren't sitting there waiting for your Emacs to return control to you :-) ). John Wiegley's async.el library comes with an example which works around the smtpmail blocking problem: https://github.com/jwiegley/emacs-async but because that library relies on using a second Emacs instance to do the background work, there can be issues with error reporting to the "master" Emacs, and getting this to work with encrypted auth credentials is pretty painful. 2. There is no easy recipe built into Gnus and smtpmail.el for the very common modern case of having several mail identities and needing to use a different outgoing smtp server for each. For that you need to figure out (info "(gnus) Posting Styles") and (info "(message) Mail Variables") and the care and feeding of the "X-Message-SMTP-Method" header, or else use an addon library like http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusAlias to make it easier to switch ougoing servers. Most MTAs have some example configuration for the "sender dependent smarthost" problem and it just works transparently after you set it up. Or people use a special tiny remote-client-only MTA like msmtp, which handles this multiple-outgoing-servers case brilliantly using just the -f flag to /usr/sbin/sendmail. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-11-02 23:55 ` W. Greenhouse @ 2014-11-03 16:59 ` Harry Putnam 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2014-11-03 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> writes: > Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes: > > [...] > >> Perhaps there are good reasons to do it and I would be better off >> spending my time getting setup for that. >> >> Any speed or cpu differences of note? >> >> Any other points infavor of all smtpmail.el? > > As I see it, the pros of smtpmail.el are: [...] Thanks for such a complete walkthru covering so much. Very helpful. Even though my needs are pretty basic, I suspect most of the work needed to get that working is a bit above my pay grade. (READ skill level) ;) I think I'll stick with my current setup and go for the smtp output when I need it, with my trusty `mailx -v'. Just thought there might be an easy yet more automated way... but it does not sound like it. At least not without a good dose of heaving and hawing along the way. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-17 16:13 Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? Harry Putnam 2014-10-17 16:36 ` Filipp Gunbin @ 2014-10-18 14:10 ` Dave Goldberg 2014-11-01 18:24 ` Harry Putnam 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Dave Goldberg @ 2014-10-18 14:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding > How would I go about sending mail in such a way as to capture the smtp > output like one can do with `mailx -v' > I'd like to collect that smtp output in a buffer as I send mail. What is your outgoing email setup? As another poster noted, if you use smtpmail (as I do) you can set smtpmail-debug-info and smtpmail-debug-verb to t to get a trace buffer each time you send a message (it gets overwritten for each one, though, so be prepared to save it off if you need the record). However, there are other ways to configure emacs to send mail and the fact that you are not finding that variable suggests you may be using one of them. Most likely is sendmail since I think that's the default, in which case you may find you have a buffer named " sendmail errors" that has the trace in it. You might also want to take a look at the mail-interactive variable. If it's nil I don't think you get the trace. -- Dave Goldberg david.goldberg6@verizon.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? 2014-10-18 14:10 ` Dave Goldberg @ 2014-11-01 18:24 ` Harry Putnam 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2014-11-01 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding david.goldberg6@verizon.net (Dave Goldberg) writes: >> How would I go about sending mail in such a way as to capture the smtp >> output like one can do with `mailx -v' > >> I'd like to collect that smtp output in a buffer as I send mail. > > What is your outgoing email setup? As another poster noted, if you > use smtpmail (as I do) you can set smtpmail-debug-info and > smtpmail-debug-verb to t to get a trace buffer each time you send a > message (it gets overwritten for each one, though, so be prepared to > save it off if you need the record). Thanks for the input, it is informed and very helpful: You hit it on the head... I don't use smtpmail ... only once a few yrs ago when I set up gnus on windows. I've done my mail activity on linux using gnus for many yrs, with sendmail as the sending software. > However, there are other ways to configure emacs to send mail and the > fact that you are not finding that variable suggests you may be using > one of them. Most likely is sendmail since I think that's the > default, in which case you may find you have a buffer named " sendmail > errors" that has the trace in it. You might also want to take a look > at the mail-interactive variable. If it's nil I don't think you get > the trace. Do you know if that trace buffer would appear only if there were errors? I use this in gnus (setq mail-user-agent 'gnus-user-agent) for many years. That would have meant sendmail for many yrs but last few I've started using exim4 on debian. Since exim4's executable is named `sendmail'.... After seeing your post, I thought it might still work.... but apparently not since the variable you mentioned: `mail-interactive' is set to `t'. But still I don't have that buffer. Do you think there might be still more factors that need resetting or the like to be able to follow that smtp output regularly? Of course, I can and do follow the smtp output using a homeboy mail sending script that uses `mailx -v' for testing situations. It records the smtp output, but it would be nice to have that output available all the time. And I didn't really see a handy way to capture it when sending from gnus which is my normal way. And, of course again, there are exim logs, mail.log and so forth. Still it would be handy to have a continuing buffer in gnus to refer to when a problem arises. Perhaps there is some way to hook into that smtp activity in verbose mode by scripting something? .... but that is a bit over my pea brain comprehension. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-11-03 16:59 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2014-10-17 16:13 Any way to captuer smtp output when sending mail? Harry Putnam 2014-10-17 16:36 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-10-17 21:37 ` Harry Putnam 2014-10-18 0:37 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-10-18 11:56 ` Filipp Gunbin 2014-11-01 18:35 ` Harry Putnam 2014-11-01 19:02 ` W. Greenhouse 2014-11-02 0:46 ` Harry Putnam 2014-11-02 23:55 ` W. Greenhouse 2014-11-03 16:59 ` Harry Putnam 2014-10-18 14:10 ` Dave Goldberg 2014-11-01 18:24 ` Harry Putnam
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