unsent messages

unsent messages

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Every once in a while (maybe once or twice a week, on average), I send a
mail via gnus that doesn't actually get sent: gnus believes it has sent
the message, it is archived into my Sent group, but the message does not
actually go out. All my email accounts are served via google app
domains, and I use msmtp for outgoing mail. When I discover that a sent
message has not been sent (often a week or two after the fact), I can
see that it does not appear in my msmtp.log file. So the crack it's
falling through is somewhere between gnus and msmtp.

My relevant settings seem to be:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq message-send-mail-function 'message-send-mail-with-sendmail)
(setq sendmail-program "/usr/bin/msmtp")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Gnus is v5.13, msmtp is 1.4.20, emacs is 23.2.1.

I've also got a message-send-mail-hook that switches the outgoing msmtp
account based on the From header of outgoing messages, which I found
here: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusMSMTP#toc1  I'm using it just
as it appears there.

I guess I'd just like to know how to ensure some sort of transaction
integrity here: either it goes out and really does go, or it blows up
and I know about it. Can anyone tell me if there are places in this
chain where errors could be muffled?

Thanks very much!

Eric

Re: unsent messages

[Memnon Anon]

Hi,

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Every once in a while (maybe once or twice a week, on average), I send a
> mail via gnus that doesn't actually get sent: gnus believes it has sent
> the message, it is archived into my Sent group, but the message does not
> actually go out. All my email accounts are served via google app
> domains, and I use msmtp for outgoing mail. When I discover that a sent
> message has not been sent (often a week or two after the fact), I can
> see that it does not appear in my msmtp.log file. So the crack it's
> falling through is somewhere between gnus and msmtp.
>
> My relevant settings seem to be:
>
> (setq message-send-mail-function 'message-send-mail-with-sendmail)
> (setq sendmail-program "/usr/bin/msmtp")
>
> Gnus is v5.13, msmtp is 1.4.20, emacs is 23.2.1.
>
> I've also got a message-send-mail-hook that switches the outgoing msmtp
> account based on the From header of outgoing messages, which I found
> here: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusMSMTP#toc1  I'm using it just
> as it appears there.
>
> I guess I'd just like to know how to ensure some sort of transaction
> integrity here: either it goes out and really does go, or it blows up
> and I know about it. Can anyone tell me if there are places in this
> chain where errors could be muffled?

Same setup here, same problem.
I am not sure what might be the reason, but I think my flaky wifi is 
responsible.

So I use this, now:

(setq message-send-mail-function 'message-send-mail-with-sendmail)
(setq sendmail-program "/usr/local/bin/msmtpQ"
      mail-specify-envelope-from t
;; needed for debians message.el cf. README.Debian.gz 
      message-sendmail-f-is-evil nil                
      mail-envelope-from 'header
      message-sendmail-envelope-from 'header)

msmtpQ is a little shell script that sends the mail if there is a
connection or queques it. It is part of the debian package.
(/usr/share/doc/msmtp/examples/msmtpq/)
[Copy to /usr/local/bin/. You have to set 3 vars in the script!]

This line in my .bashrc checks if there is mail not yet send and 
notifies me whenever I e.g. start a new xterm: 

find "/home/memnon/Mail/msmtpq" -type f -exec echo Queued Mail! {} \;

I encountered no trouble ever since.

hth
Memnon

Re: unsent messages

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:27:38 +0200 Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> wrote: 

MA> So I use this, now:

MA> (setq message-send-mail-function 'message-send-mail-with-sendmail)
MA> (setq sendmail-program "/usr/local/bin/msmtpQ"
MA>       mail-specify-envelope-from t
MA> ;; needed for debians message.el cf. README.Debian.gz 
MA>       message-sendmail-f-is-evil nil                
MA>       mail-envelope-from 'header
MA>       message-sendmail-envelope-from 'header)

MA> msmtpQ is a little shell script that sends the mail if there is a
MA> connection or queques it. It is part of the debian package.
MA> (/usr/share/doc/msmtp/examples/msmtpq/)
MA> [Copy to /usr/local/bin/. You have to set 3 vars in the script!]

MA> This line in my .bashrc checks if there is mail not yet send and 
MA> notifies me whenever I e.g. start a new xterm: 

MA> find "/home/memnon/Mail/msmtpq" -type f -exec echo Queued Mail! {} \;

MA> I encountered no trouble ever since.

Could you put this on the Emacs Wiki somewhere under Gnus, since it
seems quite useful (it probably doesn't belong in the manual or in the
FAQ).

Thanks
Ted

Re: unsent messages

[Memnon Anon]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:27:38 +0200 Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> wrote: 
[...]
> MA> I encountered no trouble ever since.
>
> Could you put this on the Emacs Wiki somewhere under Gnus, since it
> seems quite useful (it probably doesn't belong in the manual or in the
> FAQ).

Mhh, 

somewhere "under Gnus" doesn't feel right.
I'd rather suggest the msmtp page.

However, I first would like to know

         a) How this works for Eric and
         b) Why this happens in the first place!

I did some testing to investigate whether this is gnus or msmtps "fault",
but after some time, I just wanted to get my emails send and stopped
further tests when everything worked satisfactorily.

I will try msmtp with mutt, and see if I can reproduce the lost mail
phenomenon in that setup. A new msmtp version was released recently, 
maybe the problem is fixed already ...

Memnon (checking out the msmtp bug tracker first) Anon 

Re: unsent messages

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On Wed, Aug 04 2010, Memnon Anon wrote:

> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:27:38 +0200 Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> wrote: 
> [...]
>> MA> I encountered no trouble ever since.
>>
>> Could you put this on the Emacs Wiki somewhere under Gnus, since it
>> seems quite useful (it probably doesn't belong in the manual or in the
>> FAQ).
>
> Mhh, 
>
> somewhere "under Gnus" doesn't feel right.
> I'd rather suggest the msmtp page.
>
> However, I first would like to know
>
>          a) How this works for Eric and
>          b) Why this happens in the first place!
>

It seems to be working fine, but the original problem was so sporadic
it's really hard to know. I can say that since I started using the queue
I don't seem to have lost any messages.

I also don't know who to "blame", though it does seem that msmtp would
leave something in the logs if it choked...

> I did some testing to investigate whether this is gnus or msmtps "fault",
> but after some time, I just wanted to get my emails send and stopped
> further tests when everything worked satisfactorily.
>
> I will try msmtp with mutt, and see if I can reproduce the lost mail
> phenomenon in that setup. A new msmtp version was released recently, 
> maybe the problem is fixed already ...
>
> Memnon (checking out the msmtp bug tracker first) Anon 

Re: unsent messages

[Memnon Anon]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> It seems to be working fine, but the original problem was so sporadic
> it's really hard to know. I can say that since I started using the queue
> I don't seem to have lost any messages.
>
> I also don't know who to "blame", though it does seem that msmtp would
> leave something in the logs if it choked...

Well, just keep using it and if you find a message queued that should
have been sent, please post the corresponding lines of your log
files; it will happen eventually, I assume.

Have a look at these excerpts from my logs:


,---- msmtp.queue.log
| 2010 27 Jul 19:55:13 : mail for [ -oi -f
| gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com -t ] : send was successful
|
! 2010 27 Jul 20:09:07 : mail for [ -oi -f xxx@xxx.xxx -t ] : couldn't
! be sent - host not connected
! 2010 27 Jul 20:09:07 : enqueued mail as : [ 2010-07-27-20.09.07 ] (
! -oi -f xxx@gmx.net -t ) : successful
|
| 2010 27 Jul 20:27:40 : mail for [ -oi -f
| gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com -t ] : send was successful
`----

,---- msmtp.log
| Jul 27 19:55:13 host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=on
| user=gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com
| from=gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com
| recipients=xxx@live.com mailsize=121663 smtpstatus=250
| smtpmsg='250 2.0.0 OK 1280253313 a9sm4036453bxx.23' exitcode=EX_OK
|
| Jul 27 20:27:40 host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=on
| user=gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com
| from=gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com
| recipients=eric@ericabrahamsen.net,ding@gnus.org mailsize=2758
| smtpstatus=250 smtpmsg='250 2.0.0 OK 1280255260 f10sm4061429bkl.17'
| exitcode=EX_OK
`----

"couldn't be sent - host not connected" : I was definately online when I
sent that mail. Thats why I think my (really) unreliable wifi is
responsible. 
Lets see what your logs will say.

Maybe, I should ask on the msmtp list, but not yet.

Re: unsent messages

[Memnon Anon]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Could you put this on the Emacs Wiki somewhere under Gnus, since it
> seems quite useful (it probably doesn't belong in the manual or in the
> FAQ).

Done. See http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusMSMTP

Memnon

Re: unsent messages

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:41:50 +0200 Memnon Anon <gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> wrote: 

MA> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> Could you put this on the Emacs Wiki somewhere under Gnus, since it
>> seems quite useful (it probably doesn't belong in the manual or in the
>> FAQ).

MA> Done. See http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusMSMTP

Thanks, that will really help the next poor soul that ventures into that
dark corner :)

Ted