User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el' (was: Maintenance suggestion on an emacs mode)

User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el' (was: Maintenance suggestion on an emacs mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Mar 29 2008, paul r wrote:

> Those modifications concern some default key bindings on your mode
> map, bound on the C-c[a-zA-Z] pattern, which is supposed to be
> reserved for users, as explained in the last paragraph of the link
> [1].
> Each of you will receive an other email with the file to fix and the
> matching lines. If possible, please send back a patch on emacs-devel
> with those keybindings changed.

`gnus-diary.el' uses `C-c D' as a prefix key:

(define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
(define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
(define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
(define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)

Do we really need a key binding for `gnus-diary-version'?

I'd suggest to discuss an alternative prefix on the Gnus list.
(Mail-Followup-To set accordingly.)

> [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Keymaps.html

,----[ (info "(emacs)Keymaps") ]
|    As a user, you can redefine any key; but it is usually best to stick
| to key sequences that consist of `C-c' followed by a letter (upper or
| lower case).  These keys are "reserved for users," so they won't
| conflict with any properly designed Emacs extension.  The function keys
| <F5> through <F9> are also reserved for users.  If you redefine some
| other key, your definition may be overridden by certain extensions or
| major modes which redefine the same key.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el' (was: Maintenance suggestion on an emacs mode)

[paul r]

2008/3/30, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc>:

>
>  `gnus-diary.el' uses `C-c D' as a prefix key:

Didier Verna is mentionned as the maintener for this file, and has
been informed of theses bindings. Its email is at xemacs.org, so I
guess this file has been imported from XEmacs. I do not know what
policy XEmacs applies for user key bindings, but in case it is
compatible with GNU Emacs policy, it could be done directly by Didier
for both flavours.

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el' (was: Maintenance suggestion on an emacs mode)

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

paul r writes:

 > I do not know what policy XEmacs applies for user key bindings,

XEmacs policy is that the bindings (or prefixes, as the user chooses)
C-c <ASCII letter> are reserved to the user.

Other bindings should not collide with other modes (whether
distributed by XEmacs or not), be used sparingly as as scarce
resource, and be compatible with Emacs where possible.

This should usually be compatible with Emacs policy.

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el'

[Reiner Steib]

On Sun, Mar 30 2008, Reiner Steib wrote:

> `gnus-diary.el' uses `C-c D' as a prefix key:
> (define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
> (define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
> (define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
> (define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
>
> Do we really need a key binding for `gnus-diary-version'?

I removed the bindings for `gnus-diary-version' (in v5-10 because
binding user reserved is clearly a bug, IMHO; trunk will follow
later).

> I'd suggest to discuss an alternative prefix on the Gnus list.

We need to find new a keybinding for `gnus-diary-check-message'.  We
could use `C-c C-f d'.  `C-c C-f' because it's the usual prefix for
header commands and `d' for "diary".  Other suggestion?  Didier?  I've
installed this as well, but we may change it if someone has a better
suggestion.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el'

[Didier Verna]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 29 2008, paul r wrote:
>
>> Those modifications concern some default key bindings on your mode
>> map, bound on the C-c[a-zA-Z] pattern, which is supposed to be
>> reserved for users

   FWIW, when I designed the nndiary backend, I split functionality
between core features and convenience stuff, in respectively nndiary.el
and gnus-diary.el. Technically, gnus-diary is not needed to use nndiary,
so I though of it as a user-level layer, hence the choice of a C-c
prefix. I'm not strongly opposed to changing that though.

> `gnus-diary.el' uses `C-c D' as a prefix key:
>
> (define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
> (define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
> (define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
> (define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
>
> Do we really need a key binding for `gnus-diary-version'?

  We does this binding bother you (I mean, apart from the C-c part) ? If
that's because there are only two key bindings right now, so you would
like to remove the prefix altogether and just bind g-d-c-m somewhere
else, then I'm opposed to this change. I want to keep a whole prefix for
gnus-diary, so that I don't interfere or risk a conflict with another
library in the future.

-- 
5th European Lisp Workshop at ECOOP 2008, July 7: http://elw.bknr.net/2008/

Didier Verna, didier@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier

EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire   Tel.+33 (0)1 44 08 01 85
94276 Le Kremlin-Bicêtre, France   Fax.+33 (0)1 53 14 59 22  didier@xemacs.org

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el'

[Didier Verna]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:

> I removed the bindings for `gnus-diary-version' (in v5-10 because
> binding user reserved is clearly a bug, IMHO; trunk will follow
> later).

  Grrrr.


> We need to find new a keybinding for `gnus-diary-check-message'. We
> could use `C-c C-f d'. `C-c C-f' because it's the usual prefix for
> header commands and `d' for "diary". Other suggestion? Didier? I've
> installed this as well, but we may change it if someone has a better
> suggestion.

  Like I said in my previous post (sorry for the delay answering this
thread), I'd like to keep a whole prefix for nndiary stuff. Would C-c
C-D (a capital D) be acceptable ?

-- 
5th European Lisp Workshop at ECOOP 2008, July 7: http://elw.bknr.net/2008/

Didier Verna, didier@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier

EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire   Tel.+33 (0)1 44 08 01 85
94276 Le Kremlin-Bicêtre, France   Fax.+33 (0)1 53 14 59 22  didier@xemacs.org

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el'

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Apr 14 2008, Didier Verna wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 29 2008, paul r wrote:
>>> Those modifications concern some default key bindings on your mode
>>> map, bound on the C-c[a-zA-Z] pattern, which is supposed to be
>>> reserved for users
>
>    FWIW, when I designed the nndiary backend, I split functionality
> between core features and convenience stuff, in respectively nndiary.el
> and gnus-diary.el. Technically, gnus-diary is not needed to use nndiary,
> so I though of it as a user-level layer, hence the choice of a C-c
> prefix. I'm not strongly opposed to changing that though.

`C-c' followed by a letter (upper or lower case) are reserved for
users in Emacs (IIRC, Stephen J. Turnbull confirmed that also for
XEmacs), so we *must not* use these bindings in Gnus.

>> `gnus-diary.el' uses `C-c D' as a prefix key:
>>
>> (define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
>> (define-key message-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
>> (define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDc" 'gnus-diary-check-message)
>> (define-key gnus-article-edit-mode-map "\C-cDv" 'gnus-diary-version)
>>
>> Do we really need a key binding for `gnus-diary-version'?
>
>   We does this binding bother you (I mean, apart from the C-c part) ? 

Only `C-c letter' bothers me.  But I don't think displaying the
version (of Emacs, Gnus, gnus-diary, ...) is such a frequently used
command that needs a key binding in the first place.

> If that's because there are only two key bindings right now, so you
> would like to remove the prefix altogether and just bind g-d-c-m
> somewhere else, then I'm opposed to this change. I want to keep a
> whole prefix for gnus-diary, so that I don't interfere or risk a
> conflict with another library in the future.

On Mon, Apr 14 2008, Didier Verna wrote:
> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:
>> I removed the bindings for `gnus-diary-version' (in v5-10 because
>> binding user reserved is clearly a bug, IMHO; trunk will follow
>> later).
>
>   Grrrr.

Well, how long do you expect me to wait for any reply?

>> We need to find new a keybinding for `gnus-diary-check-message'. We
>> could use `C-c C-f d'. `C-c C-f' because it's the usual prefix for
>> header commands and `d' for "diary". Other suggestion? Didier? I've
>> installed this as well, but we may change it if someone has a better
>> suggestion.
>
>   Like I said in my previous post (sorry for the delay answering this
> thread), I'd like to keep a whole prefix for nndiary stuff. Would C-c
> C-D (a capital D) be acceptable ?

It's acceptable (since it doesn't clash with the user-reserved
bindings).  I'm not sure if `C-c C-D' is distinguishable from `C-c
C-d' on (some) consoles.  Personally, I'd find e.g. `C-c C-f d c' much
easier to type than `C-c C-D ...' = `C-c C-S-d c'.  The prefix `C-c
M-d' is also free and easier to type than `C-c C-S-d'.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: User reserved keybindings in `gnus-diary.el'

[Didier Verna]

> On Mon, Apr 14 2008, Didier Verna wrote:
>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:
>>> I removed the bindings for `gnus-diary-version' (in v5-10 because
>>> binding user reserved is clearly a bug, IMHO; trunk will follow
>>> later).
>>
>>   Grrrr.
>
> Well, how long do you expect me to wait for any reply?

  Hmmm, 'having a bad evening, aren't we ? :-) Sorry /again/ for not
replying within two weeks (omigod!). Sometimes, it's just that I have
work to do.


> It's acceptable (since it doesn't clash with the user-reserved
> bindings). I'm not sure if `C-c C-D' is distinguishable from `C-c C-d'
> on (some) consoles. Personally, I'd find e.g. `C-c C-f d c' much
> easier to type than `C-c C-D ...' = `C-c C-S-d c'. The prefix `C-c
> M-d' is also free and easier to type than `C-c C-S-d'.

  I like C-c M-d better as well.

-- 
5th European Lisp Workshop at ECOOP 2008, July 7: http://elw.bknr.net/2008/

Didier Verna, didier@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier

EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire   Tel.+33 (0)1 44 08 01 85
94276 Le Kremlin-Bicêtre, France   Fax.+33 (0)1 53 14 59 22  didier@xemacs.org