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* Unpleasant catch 22
@ 2020-09-23 23:03 Harry
  2020-09-23 23:10 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Harry @ 2020-09-23 23:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

I get an error when starting gnus and after it begins mail/news scan
... it ends in Authorization Rejected.   So apparently a password not
working for on reason or another.  However there is no indication of
which password.  So normally I would start gnus and look in the server
buffer.  However starting gnus results in news scan and the same
Authorization message... Gnus never finishes its startup.

OK, I thought, I'll start` gnus-no-server' but I'll be darned if that
doesn't go to a news scan too. ( Why would there be a scan if there
are no servers?)

(And by the way gnus is running with `debug on error' and `debug on
quit' engaged)

At least the ending  during `gnus-no-server' startup is not about
Authorization but appearantly,  after a very lengthy (more than 15
minutes) I finally hit Ctrl-g.  No Backtrace is generated it simiply
says `quit'

I guess a couple of things are raised with this behavior but can
someone at least tell me how to get a gnus interface without any
news/mail scanning so I can do other chks?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-23 23:03 Unpleasant catch 22 Harry
@ 2020-09-23 23:10 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-24  0:36   ` Harry
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-23 23:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Harry <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> I get an error when starting gnus and after it begins mail/news scan
> ... it ends in Authorization Rejected.   So apparently a password not
> working for on reason or another.  However there is no indication of
> which password.  So normally I would start gnus and look in the server
> buffer.  However starting gnus results in news scan and the same
> Authorization message... Gnus never finishes its startup.
>
> OK, I thought, I'll start` gnus-no-server' but I'll be darned if that
> doesn't go to a news scan too. ( Why would there be a scan if there
> are no servers?)
>
> (And by the way gnus is running with `debug on error' and `debug on
> quit' engaged)
>
> At least the ending  during `gnus-no-server' startup is not about
> Authorization but appearantly,  after a very lengthy (more than 15
> minutes) I finally hit Ctrl-g.  No Backtrace is generated it simiply
> says `quit'
>
> I guess a couple of things are raised with this behavior but can
> someone at least tell me how to get a gnus interface without any
> news/mail scanning so I can do other chks?

Try `gnus-unplugged'? That might depend on what you've got agentized,
though.

Let us know what servers you have configured, and which require
authorization? And did this problem start after some change? After an
Emacs update? Out of the blue?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-23 23:10 ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-09-24  0:36   ` Harry
  2020-09-24  1:01     ` 黃炳熙
  2020-09-24  4:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Harry @ 2020-09-24  0:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 16:10:35 -0700, Eric Abrahamsen
<eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:

>Harry <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> I get an error when starting gnus and after it begins mail/news scan
>> ... it ends in Authorization Rejected.   So apparently a password not
>> working for on reason or another.  However there is no indication of
>> which password.  So normally I would start gnus and look in the server
>> buffer.  However starting gnus results in news scan and the same
>> Authorization message... Gnus never finishes its startup.
>>
>> OK, I thought, I'll start` gnus-no-server' but I'll be darned if that
>> doesn't go to a news scan too. ( Why would there be a scan if there
>> are no servers?)
>>
>> (And by the way gnus is running with `debug on error' and `debug on
>> quit' engaged)
>>
>> At least the ending  during `gnus-no-server' startup is not about
>> Authorization but appearantly,  after a very lengthy (more than 15
>> minutes) I finally hit Ctrl-g.  No Backtrace is generated it simiply
>> says `quit'
>>
>> I guess a couple of things are raised with this behavior but can
>> someone at least tell me how to get a gnus interface without any
>> news/mail scanning so I can do other chks?
>
>Try `gnus-unplugged'? That might depend on what you've got agentized,
>though.
>
>Let us know what servers you have configured, and which require
>authorization? And did this problem start after some change? After an
>Emacs update? Out of the blue?
>

gnus-unplugged brings the Authorization error too.

You didn't mention if `gnus-no-server' is expected to scan for
mail/news and if so, what is the point since no servers are supposed
to be engaged.

I seem to recall long ago using that call to get into gnus when there
was a server problem. (I think probably yrs ago since I had reason to
use it)

Far as what has changed:
I think I know the source of this problem.  I attempted to change
passwd at forteinc news server ... there method involves them sending
a temp passwd that you are supposed to use within an hour.  When I
tried to use it I lost contact with the server ...(this was in a
webpage) and eventually the temp passwd ran out and now do not have
use of the old passwd or the tmp one.  I've emailed them but have yet
to hear back.

But, of course, if I could get a gnus interface I could just ditch
that server and get on with business.

So I'm thinking the real problem is that gnus seems to not have any
way to allow that.  Still not getting why gnus-no-server does a
mail/news scan... which of course means I cannot get gnus started

Servers:
gmane.io (no uid or passwd)
enews.newsguy.com (uid - passwd)
Newsguy mail server (uid -  passwd)

news.forteinc.com  (uid - passwd) [one with passwd problem]

Several imap servers that rely on uid - passwd
3 gmail imaps - 1 fastmail.com imap



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-24  0:36   ` Harry
@ 2020-09-24  1:01     ` 黃炳熙
  2020-09-24  4:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: 黃炳熙 @ 2020-09-24  1:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

> Servers:
> gmane.io (no uid or passwd)
> enews.newsguy.com (uid - passwd)
> Newsguy mail server (uid -  passwd)
>
> news.forteinc.com  (uid - passwd) [one with passwd problem]
>
> Several imap servers that rely on uid - passwd
> 3 gmail imaps - 1 fastmail.com imap

Still i don't know what your problem is. However let me say foolish and
simple way. Just removing ~/.news* files...

Sometimes when my Gnus was odd, i had to try that way.

#+BEGIN_SRC text: with shell command + text
In first, Gnus and Emacs all stoping.

$ mkdir -p ~/bak
$ mv -f ~/.news* ~/bak

===> then you do Gnus start !!!
#+END_SRC

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-24  0:36   ` Harry
  2020-09-24  1:01     ` 黃炳熙
@ 2020-09-24  4:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-24  4:32       ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-24 21:27       ` Harry Putnam
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-24  4:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Harry <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 16:10:35 -0700, Eric Abrahamsen
> <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>
>>Harry <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>>
>>> I get an error when starting gnus and after it begins mail/news scan
>>> ... it ends in Authorization Rejected.   So apparently a password not
>>> working for on reason or another.  However there is no indication of
>>> which password.  So normally I would start gnus and look in the server
>>> buffer.  However starting gnus results in news scan and the same
>>> Authorization message... Gnus never finishes its startup.
>>>
>>> OK, I thought, I'll start` gnus-no-server' but I'll be darned if that
>>> doesn't go to a news scan too. ( Why would there be a scan if there
>>> are no servers?)
>>>
>>> (And by the way gnus is running with `debug on error' and `debug on
>>> quit' engaged)
>>>
>>> At least the ending  during `gnus-no-server' startup is not about
>>> Authorization but appearantly,  after a very lengthy (more than 15
>>> minutes) I finally hit Ctrl-g.  No Backtrace is generated it simiply
>>> says `quit'
>>>
>>> I guess a couple of things are raised with this behavior but can
>>> someone at least tell me how to get a gnus interface without any
>>> news/mail scanning so I can do other chks?
>>
>>Try `gnus-unplugged'? That might depend on what you've got agentized,
>>though.
>>
>>Let us know what servers you have configured, and which require
>>authorization? And did this problem start after some change? After an
>>Emacs update? Out of the blue?
>>
>
> gnus-unplugged brings the Authorization error too.
>
> You didn't mention if `gnus-no-server' is expected to scan for
> mail/news and if so, what is the point since no servers are supposed
> to be engaged.

I don't really know what's supposed to happen. The docs say that
`gnus-no-server':

will not attempt to contact your primary server—instead, it will just
activate all groups on level 1 and 2. (You should preferably keep no
native groups on those two levels.)

So far as I can tell, calling `gnus-no-server' skips the initial
connection to `gnus-start-news-server' (which only starts
`gnus-select-method'), but then later on connects to it anyway, during
`gnus-get-unread-articles'. Essentially, `gnus-no-server' seems to be
functionally equivalent to starting Gnus normally, but only activating
groups at levels 1 and 2.

One hacky solution to getting a working Gnus might be to shut it down,
and doctor your .newsrc.eld file so that all groups belonging to the
offending server are at level 3 or higher. Of course, for that matter,
if you know what the lowest level is of all the groups belonging to that
server, you could just call `gnus' with a numeric prefix arg of that
level or lower, and Gnus shouldn't attempt to contact the server.


This is separate from the fact that authentication failure of any server
shouldn't hang the whole startup process. Is the bum authentication
information for this server stored in ~/.authinfo{.gpg}? If it is, and
you delete the corresponding line, does Gnus prompt you anew for a
password to use?

Eric



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-24  4:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-09-24  4:32       ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-24 21:27       ` Harry Putnam
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-24  4:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

[...]

> So far as I can tell, calling `gnus-no-server' skips the initial
> connection to `gnus-start-news-server' (which only starts
> `gnus-select-method'), but then later on connects to it anyway, during
> `gnus-get-unread-articles'.

You probably figured this out, but this should have said "skips initial
connection to `gnus-select-method'".

> Of course, for that matter, if you know what the lowest level is of
> all the groups belonging to that server, you could just call `gnus'
> with a numeric prefix arg of that level or lower

Only lower! Not that level.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-24  4:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-24  4:32       ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-09-24 21:27       ` Harry Putnam
  2020-09-25  1:26         ` Eric Abrahamsen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Harry Putnam @ 2020-09-24 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

[...]

First let me say that problem is fixed by finally getting a working
password in place for news.forteinc. So once again I'm able to enter a
gnus interface on startup.

For future reference, one thing I'm curious about... is there a way to
tell gnus NOT to scan for news/mail on startup.  At least then in the
event of some kind of server snafu at least one could start gnus and
take care of server problems.

>> You didn't mention if `gnus-no-server' is expected to scan for
>> mail/news and if so, what is the point since no servers are supposed
>> to be engaged.
>

[...]

> So far as I can tell, calling `gnus-no-server' skips the initial
> connection to `gnus-start-news-server' (which only starts
> `gnus-select-method'), but then later on connects to it anyway, during
> `gnus-get-unread-articles'. Essentially, `gnus-no-server' seems to be
> functionally equivalent to starting Gnus normally, but only activating
> groups at levels 1 and 2.

Thanks; so not much use apparently.

[...]

> This is separate from the fact that authentication failure of any server
> shouldn't hang the whole startup process.

No need to keep on in this vain as it is fixed in fortinc server.

> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Is the bum authentication
> information for this server stored in ~/.authinfo{.gpg}? If it is, and
> you delete the corresponding line, does Gnus prompt you anew for a
> password to use?

Egad I wish I'd have thought of that.  I was mucking around with
.authinfo trying different passwd etc... and still never cottoned to
that simple fix.

Although given the way gnus was resonded to bad authinfo, I suspect
using the `prompted for' passwd and having a wrong passwd entered might
still have stopped the music.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Unpleasant catch 22
  2020-09-24 21:27       ` Harry Putnam
@ 2020-09-25  1:26         ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-25  1:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

[...]

> Thanks; so not much use apparently.

Not much, I think it's weird.

>> This is separate from the fact that authentication failure of any server
>> shouldn't hang the whole startup process.
>
> No need to keep on in this vain as it is fixed in fortinc server.

Fixed for you, but not for the next user who runs into it!

>>......................Is the bum authentication
>> information for this server stored in ~/.authinfo{.gpg}? If it is, and
>> you delete the corresponding line, does Gnus prompt you anew for a
>> password to use?
>
> Egad I wish I'd have thought of that. I was mucking around with
>.authinfo trying different passwd etc... and still never cottoned to
> that simple fix.
>
> Although given the way gnus was resonded to bad authinfo, I suspect
> using the `prompted for' passwd and having a wrong passwd entered might
> still have stopped the music.

Possibly so, so we're back to fixing the underlying issue. Anyway, I'll
poke at it and try to figure out what's going on.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-25  1:30 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-23 23:03 Unpleasant catch 22 Harry
2020-09-23 23:10 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-09-24  0:36   ` Harry
2020-09-24  1:01     ` 黃炳熙
2020-09-24  4:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-09-24  4:32       ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-09-24 21:27       ` Harry Putnam
2020-09-25  1:26         ` Eric Abrahamsen

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