* deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming @ 2011-06-10 19:47 lee 2011-06-11 16:25 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: lee @ 2011-06-10 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Hi, what exactly does mail-source-delete-incoming do? The documentation says: ,---- | If non-`nil', delete incoming files after handling them. `---- I´m wondering what is considered as "handling". For example, in my case basically all splitting is done through the exim ~/.forward file, so "handling" would mean that the user is doing all the handling of incoming messages himself (using gnus). When the user moves an incoming message to another group, is that considered "handling", and will the message be treated according to what mail-source-delete-incoming is set to? Or will it be delted immediately because it was moved? What´s behind this questions is that I´m trying to figure out what gnus does with email I don´t want to keep stored on my harddisk. If I understood the manual correctly, it´s like this (unless I modify the default behaviour): 1.) Gnus basically does not delete any email. 2.) To have an email deleted, I should mark it as expired. 3.) At some time, emails marked as expired and more than a week old will be deleted. 4.) Apparently I don´t need to do anything for 3.) to happen, besides marking emails as expired. The default behaviour is modified in that I have set mail-source-delete-incoming to nil. Does this mean that expired emails will never be deleted from incoming? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-10 19:47 deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming lee @ 2011-06-11 16:25 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-11 16:46 ` Philipp Haselwarter 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-11 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Fri, Jun 10 2011, lee wrote: > I´m wondering what is considered as "handling". "handling" here starts with fetching the mail from `mail-sources' and ends when the mail is stored in the group of your mail back end (nnml, ...) according to your split methods. > What´s behind this questions is that I´m trying to figure out what gnus > does with email I don´t want to keep stored on my harddisk. If I > understood the manual correctly, it´s like this (unless I modify the > default behaviour): > > 1.) Gnus basically does not delete any email. > 2.) To have an email deleted, I should mark it as expired. > 3.) At some time, emails marked as expired and more than a week old > will be deleted. > 4.) Apparently I don´t need to do anything for 3.) to happen, besides > marking emails as expired. Correct. > The default behaviour is modified in that I have set > mail-source-delete-incoming to nil. Does this mean that expired emails > will never be deleted from incoming? Expiry and mail-source-delete-incoming are completely unrelated. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-11 16:25 ` Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-11 16:46 ` Philipp Haselwarter 2011-06-11 18:56 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-06-11 18:58 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Philipp Haselwarter @ 2011-06-11 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > On Fri, Jun 10 2011, lee wrote: > >> I´m wondering what is considered as "handling". > > "handling" here starts with fetching the mail from `mail-sources' and > ends when the mail is stored in the group of your mail back end (nnml, > ...) according to your split methods. > >> What´s behind this questions is that I´m trying to figure out what gnus >> does with email I don´t want to keep stored on my harddisk. If I >> understood the manual correctly, it´s like this (unless I modify the >> default behaviour): >> >> 1.) Gnus basically does not delete any email. >> 2.) To have an email deleted, I should mark it as expired. >> 3.) At some time, emails marked as expired and more than a week old >> will be deleted. >> 4.) Apparently I don´t need to do anything for 3.) to happen, besides >> marking emails as expired. > > Correct. > >> The default behaviour is modified in that I have set >> mail-source-delete-incoming to nil. Does this mean that expired emails >> will never be deleted from incoming? > > Expiry and mail-source-delete-incoming are completely unrelated. > > Bye, Reiner. So IIUC gnus will with the default setting delete mail from my Inbox after 10 days? Without confirmation?! (looking at `mail-source-delete-old-incoming-confirm') Sounds scary. -- Philipp Haselwarter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-11 16:46 ` Philipp Haselwarter @ 2011-06-11 18:56 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-06-14 20:08 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-11 18:58 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-06-11 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 18:46:51 +0200, Philipp wrote: > So IIUC gnus will with the default setting delete mail from my Inbox > after 10 days? Without confirmation?! (looking at > `mail-source-delete-old-incoming-confirm') No. By default development Gnus store a copy of all email imported from mail-sources in ~/Mail/Incoming* files, as an extra precaution should anything go wrong (with splitting or what have you). Those backup copies will by default be deleted after 10 days. I think in release versions usually the Incoming*-files are usually deleted immediately. > Sounds scary. I think it sounds like a belt-and-suspenders kind of approach. Best regards, Adam -- "So this is what being a morning person is like, I Adam Sjøgren thought. It's like being 80 years old." asjo@koldfront.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-11 18:56 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-06-14 20:08 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-14 20:13 ` Adam Sjøgren 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-14 20:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Sat, Jun 11 2011, Adam Sjøgren wrote: > Those backup copies will by default be deleted after 10 days. > > I think in release versions usually the Incoming*-files are usually > deleted immediately. For released version it is supposed to be 2 days. ,----[ (info "(gnus)Mail Source Customization") ] | `mail-source-delete-incoming' | If non-`nil', delete incoming files after handling them. If `t', | delete the files immediately, if `nil', never delete any files. | If a positive number, delete files older than number of days (the | deletion will only happen when receiving new mail). You may also | set `mail-source-delete-incoming' to `nil' and call | `mail-source-delete-old-incoming' from a hook or interactively. | `mail-source-delete-incoming' defaults to `10' in alpha Gnusae and | `2' in released Gnusae. *Note Gnus Development::. `---- Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-14 20:08 ` Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-14 20:13 ` Adam Sjøgren 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-06-14 20:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:08:19 +0200, Reiner wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11 2011, Adam Sjøgren wrote: > For released version it is supposed to be 2 days. Ah, thanks for the correction. Best regards, Adam -- "So this is what being a morning person is like, I Adam Sjøgren thought. It's like being 80 years old." asjo@koldfront.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-11 16:46 ` Philipp Haselwarter 2011-06-11 18:56 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-06-11 18:58 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 2011-06-12 18:43 ` lee 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Sivaram Neelakantan @ 2011-06-11 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Sat, Jun 11 2011,Philipp Haselwarter wrote: > Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: [snipped 23 lines] >>> The default behaviour is modified in that I have set >>> mail-source-delete-incoming to nil. Does this mean that expired emails >>> will never be deleted from incoming? >> >> Expiry and mail-source-delete-incoming are completely unrelated. >> >> Bye, Reiner. > > So IIUC gnus will with the default setting delete mail from my Inbox > after 10 days? Without confirmation?! (looking at > `mail-source-delete-old-incoming-confirm') > Sounds scary. I don't think that's what's being said. The incoming message file is deleted after 10 days, the split mail in your INBOX stays. The downloaded temp files of all the messages are the ones being referred to. sivaram -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-11 18:58 ` Sivaram Neelakantan @ 2011-06-12 18:43 ` lee 2011-06-13 21:01 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: lee @ 2011-06-12 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Sivaram Neelakantan <nsivaram.net@gmail.com> writes: > On Sat, Jun 11 2011,Philipp Haselwarter wrote: > >> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > >>> >>> Expiry and mail-source-delete-incoming are completely unrelated. >>> >> >> So IIUC gnus will with the default setting delete mail from my Inbox >> after 10 days? Without confirmation?! > > I don't think that's what's being said. The incoming message file is > deleted after 10 days, the split mail in your INBOX stays. The > downloaded temp files of all the messages are the ones being referred > to. Well, I now have: ,---- | (setq | gnus-select-method '(nnml "") | mail-sources '((maildir :path "~/Maildir/"))) `---- The mail-source-delete-incoming-mail variable isn´t changed anymore in ~/.gnus.el. My MTA delivers all mail (with one exception for nndiary mails) to ~/Maildir, in maildir format. From there, gnus fetches it. So that would mean all the mail gnus has fetched from ~/Maildir stays in ~/Maildir for another 10 days before it´s being deleted? And the temp files? Is all the mail actually quadrupled until the files in incoming (~/Maildir) and the temporary files are expired? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-12 18:43 ` lee @ 2011-06-13 21:01 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-14 20:13 ` lee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-13 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Sun, Jun 12 2011, lee wrote: > Well, I now have: > > ,---- > | (setq > | gnus-select-method '(nnml "") > | mail-sources '((maildir :path "~/Maildir/"))) > `---- > > The mail-source-delete-incoming-mail variable isn´t changed anymore in > ~/.gnus.el. My MTA delivers all mail (with one exception for nndiary > mails) to ~/Maildir, in maildir format. From there, gnus fetches it. Maybe it would make more sense to use the nnmaildir back end? I.e. no entry in `mail-source´ and an nnmaildir method in `gnus-select-method´ (or `gnus-secondary-select-methods'). See (info "(gnus)Maildir"). > So that would mean all the mail gnus has fetched from ~/Maildir stays > in ~/Maildir for another 10 days before it´s being deleted? The files corresponding to `mail-source-delete-incoming´ are stored in `mail-source-directory´ and are called "Incoming*" > And the temp files? Is all the mail actually quadrupled until the files > in incoming (~/Maildir) and the temporary files are expired? Not sure what you are counting. The usual chain is: $MAIL (/var/mail/USER) -> Incoming* -> ~/Mail/some.group/123 Incoming* is the only place where a redundant copy of a message lives. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-13 21:01 ` Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-14 20:13 ` lee 2011-06-14 21:21 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: lee @ 2011-06-14 20:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > On Sun, Jun 12 2011, lee wrote: > >> Well, I now have: >> >> ,---- >> | (setq >> | gnus-select-method '(nnml "") >> | mail-sources '((maildir :path "~/Maildir/"))) >> `---- >> >> The mail-source-delete-incoming-mail variable isn´t changed anymore in >> ~/.gnus.el. My MTA delivers all mail (with one exception for nndiary >> mails) to ~/Maildir, in maildir format. From there, gnus fetches it. > > Maybe it would make more sense to use the nnmaildir back end? I.e. no > entry in `mail-source´ and an nnmaildir method in `gnus-select-method´ > (or `gnus-secondary-select-methods'). See (info "(gnus)Maildir"). Well, yes, it might have if I had known better when starting to switch from mutt to gnus. Alas, I made the whole thing rather complicated because first I found out that gnus cannot access my email stored in maildir format under ~/Mail. Later, during moving my email, I found out that there were two reasons for that: The tmp folder in ~/Mail/Maildir (which was the incoming folder) was a maildir itself, and the directory hierachy in which I stored my mail was a mixup of mailfolders and folders, which is something that doesn´t fit into what gnus expects. Then I thought I would use IMAP for all my mail and thus have the same method of accessing my email with whatever client I might use, plus the advantage of potentially being able to access it from anywhere. IMAP turned out to be rather troublesome for two reasons: The version of courier-imap currently in Debian testing has a bug that makes it impossible to access some of the folders with gnus. I tried to compile courier-imap from svn myself because this bug apparently has already been fixed in more recent versions, and I found out that it doesn´t compile (without a lot of effort). There doesn´t seem to be any other IMAP server supporting maildir ... Anyway, I had moved part of my emails to IMAP aready when it became too annoying that some folders were inaccessible, so I finallly decided to use nnml. Since nnml appears to be the native format of gnus, it´s probably going to work best with that. Should I seriously need to access all my email remotely, I can use ssh. For the cell phone, I can use IMAP to see what mail has newly arrived, and that´s enough. The IMAP client in the phone doesn´t even support folders, anyway. >> So that would mean all the mail gnus has fetched from ~/Maildir stays >> in ~/Maildir for another 10 days before it´s being deleted? > > The files corresponding to `mail-source-delete-incoming´ are stored in > `mail-source-directory´ and are called "Incoming*" Could I delete those manually? I currently have 89140 of those, while a gnus-slave is moving mails from mailing lists into the appropriate groups since three days or so. I made the mistake to dump those (with mutt) into the incoming directory to get them into gnus. Unfortunately, gnus is awfully slow with processing them. In the meantime, I´ve switched the MTA to deliver to another directory temporarily so that I can see what´s coming in with a gnus using the temporary directory as its mail-source until the slave is done. Once the slave is done, I could either switch back and hope that the Incoming* files will be removed after 10 days, or I can delete them manually before switching back, unless that would confuse gnus (which is somewhat messed up now because I tried to configure it the way I wanted, see my other post). >> And the temp files? Is all the mail actually quadrupled until the files >> in incoming (~/Maildir) and the temporary files are expired? > > Not sure what you are counting. The usual chain is: > > $MAIL (/var/mail/USER) -> Incoming* -> ~/Mail/some.group/123 > > Incoming* is the only place where a redundant copy of a message lives. Well, I´ve been using maildir (and mutt) for about 15 years now, so /var/spool/mail/user or the like isn´t exactly usual for me. It just seems way too dangerous to keep all the mail in one huge file, or in a few huge files. So in this context, "temp files" makes me think of what might appear in the "tmp" directory of a maildir folder. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-14 20:13 ` lee @ 2011-06-14 21:21 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-15 0:28 ` lee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-14 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, Jun 14 2011, lee wrote: > Could I delete those manually? I currently have 89140 of those, while a > gnus-slave is moving mails from mailing lists into the appropriate > groups since three days or so. You can delete them using rm or `mail-source-delete-old-incoming': ,----[ <f1> f mail-source-delete-old-incoming RET ] | mail-source-delete-old-incoming is an interactive compiled Lisp function in | `mail-source.el'. | | (mail-source-delete-old-incoming &optional AGE CONFIRM) | | Remove incoming files older than AGE days. | If CONFIRM is non-nil, ask for confirmation before removing a file. `---- Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming 2011-06-14 21:21 ` Reiner Steib @ 2011-06-15 0:28 ` lee 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: lee @ 2011-06-15 0:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > On Tue, Jun 14 2011, lee wrote: > >> Could I delete those manually? I currently have 89140 of those, while a >> gnus-slave is moving mails from mailing lists into the appropriate >> groups since three days or so. > > You can delete them using rm or `mail-source-delete-old-incoming': Oh, that´s cool, thanks :) Now I don´t dare anymore to run a gnus-slave or a master with the incoming directory as the mail-source: It´ll still take quite a long time (as in days) to process all the messages. I could let gnus run over night and interrupt the processing with C-g to be able to use it, but I´m afraid that might screw up the active file or other things again. Is there a way to make the processing faster? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-06-15 0:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-06-10 19:47 deleting email, expiring, mail-source-delete-incoming lee 2011-06-11 16:25 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-11 16:46 ` Philipp Haselwarter 2011-06-11 18:56 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-06-14 20:08 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-14 20:13 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-06-11 18:58 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 2011-06-12 18:43 ` lee 2011-06-13 21:01 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-14 20:13 ` lee 2011-06-14 21:21 ` Reiner Steib 2011-06-15 0:28 ` lee
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