From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/78061 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Outgoing mail defaults Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:26:10 +0100 Message-ID: <877hbr2y7h.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1300793206 24289 80.91.229.12 (22 Mar 2011 11:26:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 22 12:26:40 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q1zjS-0006sY-Ih for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:26:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42985 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q1zjS-0003ZK-1x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:26:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42394 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q1zjJ-0003Km-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:26:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q1zjE-00053F-Og for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:26:29 -0400 Original-Received: from yxa-v.extundo.com ([213.115.69.139]:34628) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q1zjE-00052c-Cq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:26:24 -0400 Original-Received: from latte.josefsson.org ([213.131.135.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa-v.extundo.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id p2MBQGDH016633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:26:17 +0100 X-Hashcash: 1:22:110322:emacs-devel@gnu.org::m+9NwJXkUTlQUKJM:LwiZ OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-Hashcash: 1:22:110322:ding@gnus.org::Yl3pSM4Rpz3mHMN8:9rkB In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:04:39 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97 at yxa-v X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 213.115.69.139 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:137520 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:78061 Archived-At: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > I'm wonder whether the defaults when sending email should change. It should. Most other MUAs default to SMTP/Submission for sending e-mails these days. > I'm thinking: > > 1) change the defaults to use smtpmail Yes, once we got 2)+3) working. > 2) change smtpmail so that it queries the user for SMTP host name (and > possibly port number) I believe port number is crucial: port 25 is often not available, so it has to go through 587 which actually is the Right Thing to use. There should be some probing: ask for the hostname and try to contact it on port 587, if that works, ask for port number and offer 587 as the default. If 587 doesn't work, probe port 25 and if that works, offer it as the default. If probing doesn't work, just prompt for the port. The prompts should ideally contain information about whether the probes worked or not. > 3) use customize to save the user's reply Yes, smtpmail-smtp-server and smtpmail-smtp-service. > In addition, smtpmail should be altered to use auth-source instead of > the slightly confusing use-both-auth-source-and-netrc setup it's using > now, and use `open-protocol-stream' to get opportunistic STARTTLS > upgrades. Yep. > Change 1) is something that will annoy people who have a perfectly good > local sendmail-like setup, so I'm not absolutely sure that this is the > way to go. On the other hand, in the long run (as my Ubuntu experience > shows), I think it might be the right thing to do, and is what most > other modern MUAs (like Thunderbird) do. It may be good to complete 2)+3) first and get user feedback on it. Maybe smtpmail could be the default in Emacs master to get early adopters to test it. /Simon