From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/88309 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Adam_Sj=C3=B8gren?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Converting TOFU into something less unreasonable Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:19:54 +0100 Organization: koldfront - analysis & revolution, Copenhagen, Denmark Message-ID: <878t01lvyd.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> References: <871s602kh7.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87lg43xfwz.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <871s5u6con.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87r2duiwku.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> <8736qamhfu.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87y382l2qq.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87pnteuky6.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1546521534 10876 195.159.176.226 (3 Jan 2019 13:18:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:18:54 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M36519@lists.math.uh.edu Thu Jan 03 14:18:50 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.208]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gf2te-0002dP-Hm for ding-account@gmane.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:18:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by lists1.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gf2uw-0004yE-9F; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:20:10 -0600 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by lists1.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gf2uq-0004vA-8V for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:20:04 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gf2un-0003NX-EH for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:20:04 -0600 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (helo=blaine.gmane.org) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gf2um-0005kX-8Z for ding@gnus.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:20:00 +0100 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gf2se-0001Yl-H4 for ding@gnus.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:17:48 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 46 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org OpenPGP: id=476630590A231909B0A0961A49D0746121BDE416; url=https://asjo.koldfront.dk/gpg.asc Mail-Follow-Up-To: never X-Face: )qY&CseJ?.:=8F#^~GcSA?F=9eu'{KAFfL1C3/A&:nE?PW\i65"ba0NS)97,Q(^@xk}n4Ou rPuR#V8I(J_@~H($[ym:`K_+]*kjvW>xH5jbgLBVFGXY:(#4P>zVBklLbdL&XxL\M)%T}3S/IS9lMJ ^St'=VZBR Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:88309 Archived-At: Eric writes: > On Thursday, 3 Jan 2019 at 06:38, Adam Sjøgren wrote: >> Also, the excuse I usually hear for doing fullquotes is "then the >> conversation can be forwarded to someone easily, including the >> context". > > A lazy excuse that has also been used on me. I do wonder if anybody > that uses this excuse has ever actually tried to read a conversation > consisting of top posted messages? It's an up&down back&forth scrolling > nightmare. If everybody does TOFU, you just read from the bottom to the top. I think the valid point they have is that you can only get the entire history if the person who forwards the emails has been in on the conversation from the beginning, and that person has to forward all the emails, not just the latest. That will still be fixed by quoting, trimming and answering below - but not by skipping quotes altogether. I really like Tom Lanes explanation: "It's about having minimal courtesy to your readers by not forcing them to re-read stuff they just read." - https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/18450.1518845005%40sss.pgh.pa.us > I will not and do not top post. I extract whatever is necessary and > reply below. One of my colleagues complained to me that my emails > didn't have sufficient context. Turns out he didn't know he would show > threads in his MUA... I've had people think I forgot to write anything, because they could not see my reply before the quoted text. Best regards, Adam -- "If you don't run, you rust." Adam Sjøgren asjo@koldfront.dk