bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[jidanni]

X-Debbugs-Cc: ding@gnus.org

Gentlemen,
   C-x s runs the command save-some-buffers, which is an interactive
   compiled Lisp function in `files.el'.

   It is bound to C-x s.

   (save-some-buffers &optional ARG PRED)

   Save some modified file-visiting buffers.  Asks user about each one.
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not any more.
Try it.
You'll see "(Saved .newsrc-dribble)", even before asking.

bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Deniz Dogan]

2011/3/20  <jidanni@jidanni.org>:
> X-Debbugs-Cc: ding@gnus.org
>
> Gentlemen,
>   C-x s runs the command save-some-buffers, which is an interactive
>   compiled Lisp function in `files.el'.
>
>   It is bound to C-x s.
>
>   (save-some-buffers &optional ARG PRED)
>
>   Save some modified file-visiting buffers.  Asks user about each one.
>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Not any more.
> Try it.
> You'll see "(Saved .newsrc-dribble)", even before asking.
>

You're not passing ARG are you?

What version are you using? I cannot reproduce it on:

GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7600) of 2011-03-07 on 3249CTO

-- 
Deniz Dogan

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[David Engster]

Deniz Dogan writes:
> 2011/3/20  <jidanni@jidanni.org>:
>> X-Debbugs-Cc: ding@gnus.org
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>>   C-x s runs the command save-some-buffers, which is an interactive
>>   compiled Lisp function in `files.el'.
>>
>>   It is bound to C-x s.
>>
>>   (save-some-buffers &optional ARG PRED)
>>
>>   Save some modified file-visiting buffers.  Asks user about each one.
>>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Not any more.
>> Try it.
>> You'll see "(Saved .newsrc-dribble)", even before asking.
>>
>
> You're not passing ARG are you?
>
> What version are you using? I cannot reproduce it on:

This is because Gnus now sets buffer-save-without-query for the dribble
file. This is desired behavior and hence only a documentation bug. The
doc-string for save-some-buffers should say something like

"Asking can be disabled for a buffer by setting the buffer-local
variable `buffer-save-without-query' to a non-nil value."

-David

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[jidanni]

Glad this was tracked down.

Too bad there is no longer such an easy way to find out what buffers are
not saved yet without saving them just by asking.

The other ways to find out are much harder.

> What version are you using?
Ha ha ha very funny. We are all using the same version number
emacs-version "24.0.50.1" for years because it is stuck.

bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[R. Fourquet]

Deniz Dogan <deniz.a.m.dogan@gmail.com> writes:

>> Not any more.
>> Try it.
>> You'll see "(Saved .newsrc-dribble)", even before asking.
>
> You're not passing ARG are you?
>
> What version are you using? I cannot reproduce it on:
>
> GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7600) of 2011-03-07 on 3249CTO

I can (partially) reproduce on the same version: save-some-buffers will
automatically save ".newsrc-dribble" if needed. But with my other
buffers, the behavior is as usual. So we can see the message "(Saved
.newsrc-dribble)" in the echo area only if there is no other buffer to
save (but it is always recorded in the *Message* buffer).

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[jidanni]

I think the documentation should stay put.
It is only some kiddie MicroSoft system that insists it is smarter than
you and saves things just because you ask. What if the cops sent a car
just because you called 911 and even before they asked what the problem was.

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[David Engster]

'jidanni' writes:
> I think the documentation should stay put.
> It is only some kiddie MicroSoft system that insists it is smarter than
> you and saves things just because you ask. What if the cops sent a car
> just because you called 911 and even before they asked what the problem was.

save-some-buffers gets called a lot when you use packages which call
external tools (like AucTeX, compile, magit, etc.), and people were
annoyed to get asked every time if the dribble file should be saved, so
in the end Lars decided to set buffer-save-without-query. I think this
is a very minor issue (and hence perfect for bikeshedding, strange
analogies and MS bashing).

-David

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[jidanni]

OK fine. Better get used to
  Gnus auto-save file exists.  Do you want to read it? (y or n)  y
often the next time you start emacs. Because there is nothing left to
remind you you haven't closed gnus properly last session.

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[David Engster]

'jidanni' writes:
> OK fine. Better get used to
>   Gnus auto-save file exists.  Do you want to read it? (y or n)  y
> often the next time you start emacs. Because there is nothing left to
> remind you you haven't closed gnus properly last session.

(add-hook 'kill-emacs-hook
	  (lambda ()
	    (when (gnus-alive-p)
	      (unless (y-or-n-p "Gnus still running! Really quit?")
		(error "User aborted kill-emacs. Quit Gnus and exit again.")))))

Although using this implies that Emacs thinks it's smarter than
you... ;-)

-David

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

jidanni@jidanni.org writes:

> OK fine. Better get used to
>   Gnus auto-save file exists.  Do you want to read it? (y or n)  y
> often the next time you start emacs.

Yes, perhaps Gnus should just read it automatically without prompting?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Robert Pluim]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> jidanni@jidanni.org writes:
>
>> OK fine. Better get used to
>>   Gnus auto-save file exists.  Do you want to read it? (y or n)  y
>> often the next time you start emacs.
>
> Yes, perhaps Gnus should just read it automatically without prompting?

No. Sometimes I fat-finger something and 'Q' out of gnus deliberately,
and then I definitely want to say 'n' to that question.

Robert

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:

> No. Sometimes I fat-finger something and 'Q' out of gnus deliberately,
> and then I definitely want to say 'n' to that question.

`Q' would still ask the question, of course.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Dave Goldberg]

> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:
>> No. Sometimes I fat-finger something and 'Q' out of gnus deliberately,
>> and then I definitely want to say 'n' to that question.

> `Q' would still ask the question, of course.  :-)

You mean Q will allow me to eliminate the dribble file entirely?  As of yesterday it didn't do that and yesterday I needed to undo a whole bunch of bad typing that lost nearly all the marks in one of my groups.  I did a Q which did not prompt me for anything, and then n to the question about reading the dribble file.  Which brought my marks back at the slight cost of a few read messages being unread once again.

-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

david.goldberg6@verizon.net (Dave Goldberg) writes:

> You mean Q will allow me to eliminate the dribble file entirely?

No.  When you say `Q', the dribble file records that you did so, and
asks you a different query than what you would get from just quitting
Emacs.

I'm proposing to auto-read the dribble file if you didn't do `Q'.  And
keep the prompt if you did do `Q'.

Doo bee doo bee doo.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Robert Pluim]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> david.goldberg6@verizon.net (Dave Goldberg) writes:
>
>> You mean Q will allow me to eliminate the dribble file entirely?
>
> No.  When you say `Q', the dribble file records that you did so, and
> asks you a different query than what you would get from just quitting
> Emacs.
>
> I'm proposing to auto-read the dribble file if you didn't do `Q'.  And
> keep the prompt if you did do `Q'.
>
> Doo bee doo bee doo.

Anna Suzanna.

Ahem. This sounds fine to me.

Robert

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[jidanni]

Lards> I'm proposing to auto-read the dribble file if

That you found a dribble file means the user did not quit out properly.

Any auto reading will deny the user of his last chance to stop data loss.

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Russ Allbery]

jidanni@jidanni.org writes:

> Lards> I'm proposing to auto-read the dribble file if

> That you found a dribble file means the user did not quit out properly.

> Any auto reading will deny the user of his last chance to stop data
> loss.

Yeah, I'm kind of leery of this too.

The most common case for me for wanting to ignore the dribble file is
because something has gone horribly wrong (I've done something that I
didn't intend to do in some bad way), and at that point I often end up
killing Emacs.  Sometimes whatever I was doing blocks so that it's not
easy to get to a point where I can do Q.

The most common case for me getting this prompt is when I accidentally
have two copies of Gnus running (usually because I start one remotely from
some other location without realizing that I already had one running
locally), in which case I want the prompt because it lets me go kill the
other one before I tell the new one to read the dribble file and proceed.

I can manually delete the dribble file in that case, but I've always liked
having the prompt.  It's an opportunity to stop and think about why
there's a dribble file.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

> I can manually delete the dribble file in that case, but I've always liked
> having the prompt.  It's an opportunity to stop and think about why
> there's a dribble file.

That's a good point.

I do like the new save-some-buffers behaviour -- getting prompted for
irrelevant buffers is just annoying when trying to compile stuff.  But
since exiting Emacs runs the same function, and we kinda do want to be
prompted on Emacs exit (I think), then we're in kind of a bind.

Overall, I think the new behaviour is an improvement.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 23:39:42 +0200 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
>> I can manually delete the dribble file in that case, but I've always liked
>> having the prompt.  It's an opportunity to stop and think about why
>> there's a dribble file.

LMI> That's a good point.

LMI> I do like the new save-some-buffers behaviour -- getting prompted for
LMI> irrelevant buffers is just annoying when trying to compile stuff.  But
LMI> since exiting Emacs runs the same function, and we kinda do want to be
LMI> prompted on Emacs exit (I think), then we're in kind of a bind.

LMI> Overall, I think the new behaviour is an improvement.

So maybe exiting Emacs should not run the exact same code the same way?

Maybe an `emacs-is-exiting' global flag could be set?

Ted

Re: bug#8300: save-some-buffers no longer asks user about each one

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Maybe an `emacs-is-exiting' global flag could be set?

Yes, that might help, but I'm not quite sure what the implications would
be.  I mean, here we have an option that one user would want to be
dont-ask-before-saving-unless-we-exiting-and-then-I-want-to-be-prompted-anyway.
I suspect that the user would be better off just adding one of the many
little snippets already suggested to the Emacs exit hook instead.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/