* Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
@ 2006-01-25 14:39 Reiner Steib
2006-01-26 7:18 ` Glyn Millington
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-01-25 14:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi,
in Emacs, `C-c [letter]' is reserved for users (the user may also use
it as a prefix: `C-c a a', `C-c a b', ...).
In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
(only `v' and `y', AFAICS). IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
standard Gnus bindings. I'd vote for `v'. Opinions?
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-01-25 14:39 Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus Reiner Steib
@ 2006-01-26 7:18 ` Glyn Millington
2006-04-09 12:37 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-12 15:31 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Glyn Millington @ 2006-01-26 7:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> Hi,
>
> in Emacs, `C-c [letter]' is reserved for users (the user may also use
> it as a prefix: `C-c a a', `C-c a b', ...).
>
> In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
> buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
> (only `v' and `y', AFAICS). IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
> these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
> standard Gnus bindings. I'd vote for `v'.
y not!
atb
Glyn
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-01-25 14:39 Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus Reiner Steib
2006-01-26 7:18 ` Glyn Millington
@ 2006-04-09 12:37 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-12 15:31 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-04-09 12:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Wed, Jan 25 2006, Reiner Steib wrote:
> in Emacs, `C-c [letter]' is reserved for users (the user may also use
> it as a prefix: `C-c a a', `C-c a b', ...).
>
> In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
> buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
> (only `v' and `y', AFAICS). IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
> these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
> standard Gnus bindings. I'd vote for `v'. Opinions?
I'll install the following change to trunk and v5-10 (please suggest
better wording or other improvements):
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
--- gnus.texi 07 Apr 2006 14:43:53 +0200 6.603.2.80
+++ gnus.texi 09 Apr 2006 14:31:05 +0200
@@ -4043,6 +4043,22 @@
@table @kbd
+@item v
+@kindex v (Group)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Group)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users. You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key. For example:
+
+@lisp
+(define-key gnus-group-mode-map (kbd "v j d")
+ (lambda ()
+ (interactive)
+ (gnus-group-jump-to-group "nndraft:drafts")))
+@end lisp
+
+On keys reserved for users in Emacs and on keybindings in general
+@xref{Keymaps, Keymaps, , emacs, The Emacs Editor}.
+
@item ^
@kindex ^ (Group)
@findex gnus-group-enter-server-mode
@@ -4438,6 +4454,14 @@
You can have as many summary buffers open as you wish.
+@kindex v (Summary)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Summary)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users. You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key. For example:
+@lisp
+(define-key gnus-summary-mode-map (kbd "v -") "LrS") ;; lower subthread
+@end lisp
+
@menu
* Summary Buffer Format:: Deciding how the summary buffer is to look.
* Summary Maneuvering:: Moving around the summary buffer.
@@ -11242,6 +11266,11 @@
buffer displayed while reading. You can do it all from the article
buffer.
+@kindex v (Article)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Article)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users. You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key.
+
A few additional keystrokes are available:
@table @kbd
@@ -12272,6 +12301,12 @@
@table @kbd
+@item v
+@kindex v (Server)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Server)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users. You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key.
+
@item a
@kindex a (Server)
@findex gnus-server-add-server
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-01-25 14:39 Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus Reiner Steib
2006-01-26 7:18 ` Glyn Millington
2006-04-09 12:37 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2006-04-12 15:31 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-12 16:38 ` Reiner Steib
2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2006-04-12 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
> buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
> (only `v' and `y', AFAICS). IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
> these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
> standard Gnus bindings. I'd vote for `v'. Opinions?
I rebind standard bindings all the time if the binding is something I
don't use, so I don't really see the point. Has there been any
requests for a reserved user-defined key? I mean, one key is just,
er, so little. :-)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-12 15:31 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2006-04-12 16:38 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-13 5:53 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-04-12 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Wed, Apr 12 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of these keys as "reserved
>> for users" to avoid that users override standard Gnus bindings.
>> I'd vote for `v'. Opinions?
>
> I rebind standard bindings all the time if the binding is something I
> don't use, so I don't really see the point.
I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users. The main
point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
The rationale is the same as for `C-c [letter]' and <F5>-<F9> in
Emacs:
,----[ (info "(emacs)Keymaps") ]
| As a user, you can redefine any key; but it is usually best to stick
| to key sequences that consist of `C-c' followed by a letter. These
| keys are "reserved for users," so they won't conflict with any properly
| designed Emacs extension. The function keys <F5> through <F9> are also
| reserved for users. If you redefine some other key, your definition
| may be overridden by certain extensions or major modes which redefine
| the same key.
`----
> Has there been any requests for a reserved user-defined key? I
> mean, one key is just, er, so little. :-)
User often wrote something like "I hit `w' and then Gnus will ..."
and later it turned out that `w' isn't stop-page-breaking but some
combination of `W q' and `W w'.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-12 16:38 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2006-04-13 5:53 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-14 19:29 ` Miles Bader
2006-04-15 17:02 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2006-04-13 5:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users. The main
> point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
True, but do we want to? It's the final unused key (I'm not counting
`y', which would be a bad idea to bind, since users have a tendency to
lean on `y' when being asked questions), and we may want to use it for
something new and spiffy we invent at some point.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-13 5:53 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2006-04-14 19:29 ` Miles Bader
2006-04-15 17:02 ` Reiner Steib
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2006-04-14 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>> I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users. The main
>> point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
>
> True, but do we want to? It's the final unused key (I'm not counting
> `y', which would be a bad idea to bind, since users have a tendency to
> lean on `y' when being asked questions), and we may want to use it for
> something new and spiffy we invent at some point.
I dunno about you, but I've already bound "v" myself in Gnus...
[To a command that toggles a variable-pitch font in the *Article*
buffer]
-Miles
--
80% of success is just showing up. --Woody Allen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-13 5:53 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-14 19:29 ` Miles Bader
@ 2006-04-15 17:02 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-15 18:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-15 23:48 ` Miles Bader
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-04-15 17:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Thu, Apr 13 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users. The main
>> point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
>
> True, but do we want to? It's the final unused key [...],
`v' is the only one (beside `y') that is left in all important Gnus
modes (group, summary, server). There are still some lower case
letters left in group mode. In summary only v, y and z.
> and we may want to use it for something new and spiffy we invent at
> some point.
If it's so spiffy, we could get rid of some duplicate binding (most of
the single letter keys still have a binding in some other map) of a
less spiffy feature¹. Reserving `v' gives the user the possibility to
bind feature important to him/her to simple key such as `v a' ... `v
z'.
Bye, Reiner.
¹ E.g., I can't recall that I ever used these summary keys either
because I only remember some other binding (b - K v, u - !) or
because I never used the command (i, w).
b gnus-article-view-part
i gnus-summary-news-other-window
u gnus-summary-tick-article-forward
w gnus-summary-stop-page-breaking
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-15 17:02 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2006-04-15 18:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-16 12:55 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-15 23:48 ` Miles Bader
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2006-04-15 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> `v' is the only one (beside `y') that is left in all important Gnus
> modes (group, summary, server). There are still some lower case
> letters left in group mode. In summary only v, y and z.
`z' unused in the summary buffer? What an oversight. :-)
> ¹ E.g., I can't recall that I ever used these summary keys either
> because I only remember some other binding (b - K v, u - !) or
> because I never used the command (i, w).
I use `u'. I'm sure there's someone one there using any of the
bindings that exist. (I'm guessing `i' and `w' are left over from
GNUS 4.1...)
Here's an idea: How about if we unbind a couple of the blatantly silly
single-letter bindings in the summary buffer now (`i' and `w' being
excellent candidates) so that we can bind them at a later point (say,
a few years) to more exciting commands? In that case I would have no
reservations about handing the `v' over to the users.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-15 17:02 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-15 18:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2006-04-15 23:48 ` Miles Bader
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2006-04-15 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> ¹ E.g., I can't recall that I ever used these summary keys either
> because I only remember some other binding (b - K v, u - !) or
> because I never used the command (i, w).
>
> b gnus-article-view-part
> i gnus-summary-news-other-window
> u gnus-summary-tick-article-forward
> w gnus-summary-stop-page-breaking
I use `b' _all_ the time (usually to view a picture or attached patch
file); I know about the K... bindings too, but `b' is just much more
convenient, especially for one-handed browsing (no jokes now :-).
-Miles
--
`To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to,
all of life's problems' --Homer J. Simpson
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-15 18:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2006-04-16 12:55 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-16 15:04 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-04-16 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Sat, Apr 15 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> `v' is the only one (beside `y') that is left in all important Gnus
>> modes (group, summary, server).
[...]
> I use `u'.
`!' is much more easy to remember because the mark is also `!'.
gnus-summary-tick-article-forward [...] is bound to u, !, M !, M t.
What a waste of key bindings. :-)
> Here's an idea: How about if we unbind a couple of the blatantly silly
> single-letter bindings in the summary buffer now (`i' and `w' being
> excellent candidates) so that we can bind them at a later point (say,
> a few years) to more exciting commands? In that case I would have no
> reservations about handing the `v' over to the users.
Excellent!
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus
2006-04-16 12:55 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2006-04-16 15:04 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2006-04-16 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> `!' is much more easy to remember because the mark is also `!'.
> gnus-summary-tick-article-forward [...] is bound to u, !, M !, M t.
> What a waste of key bindings. :-)
`u' is easier to type. :-)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
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2006-01-25 14:39 Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus Reiner Steib
2006-01-26 7:18 ` Glyn Millington
2006-04-09 12:37 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-12 15:31 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-12 16:38 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-13 5:53 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-14 19:29 ` Miles Bader
2006-04-15 17:02 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-15 18:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-16 12:55 ` Reiner Steib
2006-04-16 15:04 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2006-04-15 23:48 ` Miles Bader
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