Need help switching to IMAP

Need help switching to IMAP

[Denys Duchier]

Our mail support will now be administered differently and I have been
asked to switch to IMAP asap.  I don't know anything about IMAP and
the documentation included in pGnus 0.98 does not leave me with enough
confidence to take the plunge without asking first some advice on this
list.

1. Assuming my imap server is on machine "crazy.glue.com" and my user
   id on that machine is "crumbastic", I should set:

(setq mail-sources '((imap :server "crazy.glue.com" :user "crumbastic")))

   right?

2. What happens to gnus-secondary-select-methods?  Instead of:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnfolder "")))

   I should now leave it empty, right?

3. What happens to all my mail folders?  Can I pour them into the imap
   magic lantern?  like, by respooling or something?

   By the way, where do all my imap folders/mailboxes live anyway?  Is
   this configurable?

4. How do I perform splitting?  I guess nnmail-split-methods doesn't
   apply.  So, what's the right incantation?

5. The doc for the imap mail source specifier says:

`imap'
     Get mail from a IMAP server. If you don't want to use IMAP as
     intended, as a network mail reading protocol, for some reason or
     other Gnus let you treat it similar to a POP server and fetches
     articles from a given IMAP mailbox.

   I can't figure out what is being said.  Is IMAP being used as
   intended or not?  Does Gnus `let' me treat it as a POP server (if
   yes, how) or `force' me to treat it so, regardless of my
   inclination?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Better yet, it would be really
handy to have a "Gnus/IMAP for Dummies" section in the manual :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Dr. Denys Duchier			Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de
Forschungsbereich Programmiersysteme	(Programming Systems Lab)
Universitaet des Saarlandes, Geb. 45	http://www.ps.uni-sb.de/~duchier
Postfach 15 11 50			Phone: +49 681 302 5618
66041 Saarbruecken, Germany		Fax:   +49 681 302 5615

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Simon Josefsson]

Denys Duchier <Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de> writes:

> I don't know anything about IMAP and the documentation included in
> pGnus 0.98 does not leave me with enough confidence to take the
> plunge without asking first some advice on this list.

Here are two links that describe IMAP briefly, you'll probably have a
clearer view and perhaps find the Gnus/imap documentation more useful
after browsing through theese.

http://www.imap.org/whatisIMAP.html
http://www.imap.org/imap.vs.pop.brief.html

> 1. Assuming my imap server is on machine "crazy.glue.com" and my user
>    id on that machine is "crumbastic", I should set:
> 
> (setq mail-sources '((imap :server "crazy.glue.com" :user "crumbastic")))
> 
>    right?

Yes, that would work. But by using `mail-sources' you wouldn't take
advantage of IMAPs feature though, you'll only use it as it was a POP
server and download all articles and plunk them into nnml or whatever
on your local disk. This might be what you want though.

> 2. What happens to gnus-secondary-select-methods?  Instead of:
> 
> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnfolder "")))
> 
>    I should now leave it empty, right?

Well, you'll have to decide.

1) Use nnfolder and the mail-source above.  This keeps all mail on
   your local disk. Then keep `g-s-s-methods' as is.

2) Use nnimap. All mail is on the IMAP server. Then add something like

(nnimap "" (nnimap-address "your.mail.server"))

to `g-s-s-methods'.

> 3. What happens to all my mail folders?  Can I pour them into the imap
>    magic lantern?  like, by respooling or something?

If you go for 1, nothing happen to your mail folders.

If you go for 2, you can copy your nnfolder groups into nnimap
groups. (Don't move them unless you've made sure everything works.)

>    By the way, where do all my imap folders/mailboxes live anyway?  Is
>    this configurable?

It depend on the IMAP server, you'll have to ask your administrators.

> 4. How do I perform splitting?  I guess nnmail-split-methods doesn't
>    apply.  So, what's the right incantation?

If you go for 1, splitting remains unaffected.

If you go for 2, you can use procmail or Sieve on the IMAP server to
do the splitting, or you can use the splitting in nnimap, see the
chapter "Splitting in IMAP".

> `imap'
>      Get mail from a IMAP server. If you don't want to use IMAP as
>      intended, as a network mail reading protocol, for some reason or
>      other Gnus let you treat it similar to a POP server and fetches
>      articles from a given IMAP mailbox.
> 
>    I can't figure out what is being said.  Is IMAP being used as
>    intended or not?

No, by using mail-sources you're not using IMAP as intended, you're
only using it as a POP server.

>   Does Gnus `let' me treat it as a POP server (if yes, how) or
>   `force' me to treat it so, regardless of my inclination?

Gnus let you treat it as a POP server by using mail-sources, if you
want that.

It does not force you to do it, you can use nnimap instead if you want
to use IMAP as it's intended (ie all mail reside on the server).

> Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Better yet, it would be really
> handy to have a "Gnus/IMAP for Dummies" section in the manual :-)

A "Gnus for dummies" would be quite useful.

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Denys Duchier]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the info.  It cleared up a few points and I chose option
(2), i.e. to plug nnimap into g-s-s-m.  This was not entirely
successful.  Actually I failed miserably.

I tried this:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnimap "" (nnimap-address "mail.ps.uni-sb.de"))))

and here is what happened:

1. all my mail usual nnfolders were now displayed with that funny `*'
   character.  What happened to them?  I didn't dare to try and open
   anything.
2. then I switched to the server buffer and selected the imap server
   to, I guess, subscribe to my mailbox or something; but it went on
   and on and on computing some sort of active file thing the size of
   the universe apparently.
3. eventually I just interrupted it, but after that I had difficulty
   quitting Gnus.  Emacs 20.4.1 was hardly responding and eventually
   dumped core.  This is not good.

I have now switched back to:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnfolder "")))

and things appears to be ok.  but I'd like to know what I did wrong or
forgot to do.  What's the right way to get my imap mailboxes?

Thanks for your patience with the terminally challenged (imap-wise anyway)
Cheers,

-- 
Dr. Denys Duchier			Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de
Forschungsbereich Programmiersysteme	(Programming Systems Lab)
Universitaet des Saarlandes, Geb. 45	http://www.ps.uni-sb.de/~duchier
Postfach 15 11 50			Phone: +49 681 302 5618
66041 Saarbruecken, Germany		Fax:   +49 681 302 5615

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Simon Josefsson]

Denys Duchier <Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de> writes:

> I tried this:
> 
> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
> '((nnimap "" (nnimap-address "mail.ps.uni-sb.de"))))
> 
> and here is what happened:
> 
> 1. all my mail usual nnfolders were now displayed with that funny `*'
>    character.  What happened to them?  I didn't dare to try and open
>    anything.

You removed the server, so they didn't show up. Try this instead:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
        '((nnfolder "")
          (nnimap "" (nnimap-address "mail.ps.uni-sb.de"))))
        
> 2. then I switched to the server buffer and selected the imap server
>    to, I guess, subscribe to my mailbox or something; but it went on
>    and on and on computing some sort of active file thing the size of
>    the universe apparently.

This is an artefact of some servers, most typical the University of
Washington server, until the server buffer support browsing through
groups without fetching the complete list you'll need to limit the
number of groups to view with something like:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
        '((nnfolder "")
          (nnimap "" (nnimap-address "mail.ps.uni-sb.de")
                     (nnimap-list-pattern ("INBOX" "Mail/*")))))

See the manual on `nnimap-list-pattern' for more info. Change "Mail/*"
to wherever your mail folders are called on the server.

> 3. eventually I just interrupted it, but after that I had difficulty
>    quitting Gnus.  Emacs 20.4.1 was hardly responding and eventually
>    dumped core.  This is not good.

Oops.  If you run emacs under gdb and type 'bt' when it core dump I'm
sure the emacs people are interested.

> I have now switched back to:
> 
> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnfolder "")))
> 
> and things appears to be ok.  but I'd like to know what I did wrong or
> forgot to do.  What's the right way to get my imap mailboxes?

Basicly add the nnimap select method without removing your nnfolder
select method, and use `nnimap-list-pattern' to limit the number of
groups to list. Then try again. :-)

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Denys Duchier]

Thanks Simon.  Things are now working.  Mostly.
Except that I keep getting the following complaint:

        group INBOX is not uidvalid

What does it mean?  How do I fix this?  It doesn't seem to cause any
harm.

Also, in the server buffer I have now 2 imap entries

        nnimap:+nnimap:INBOX
        nnimap:

What the heck is the first one?

Cheers,

-- 
Dr. Denys Duchier			Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de
Forschungsbereich Programmiersysteme	(Programming Systems Lab)
Universitaet des Saarlandes, Geb. 45	http://www.ps.uni-sb.de/~duchier
Postfach 15 11 50			Phone: +49 681 302 5618
66041 Saarbruecken, Germany		Fax:   +49 681 302 5615

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Kai Großjohann]

Denys Duchier <Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de> writes:

> Except that I keep getting the following complaint:
> 
>         group INBOX is not uidvalid
> 
> What does it mean?  How do I fix this?  It doesn't seem to cause any
> harm.

Type `G p' and remove the (uidvalidity ...) parenthesized item from
the list of parenthesized items.  (May be just that one item.)

kai
-- 
This gubblick contains many nonsklarkish English flutzpahs,
but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context. -- David Moser

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[David Maslen]

A very interesting thread, as this is almost exactly the position I am
in. I'm somewhat fortunate in that my mailserver runs pop and
imap. 

Looks to me as though if I were to use imap, I would have to do
it as if it were pop, because I rely heavily on my nnmail-splitting.

I used to use procmail to split mail, but converted the rules to gnus,
as I preferred to keep it all within xemacs in case one day I find
myself with a windows desktop. Also I would prefer a solution that
didn't require me to have access to the mailserver to setup procmail spliting.

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Yair Friedman (Jerusalem)]

Denys Duchier <Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de> writes:

> Our mail support will now be administered differently and I have been
> asked to switch to IMAP asap.  I don't know anything about IMAP and
> the documentation included in pGnus 0.98 does not leave me with enough
> confidence to take the plunge without asking first some advice on this
> list.
> 

Using IMAP can have two very different meanings, your actions depend on
the situation.

1. The mail is being put on an IMAP server where you just want to fetch
   it to the local machine and don't want to leave mail on the server.
   For this I recommend using fetchmail, much more easy to setup,
   iontegrates with procmail and you don't need to change your gnus
   setup.  This is what I was using in the last two years.

2.  You need to leave mail on the IMAP server because you travel and
    don't have access to your local machine, or if you got stuck in
    M$-exchange world where everyone send you meeting summons or mail
    with VB buttons etc., and you have to deal with them using the M$
    tools :-(.  In this case you need nnimap. 

> 1. Assuming my imap server is on machine "crazy.glue.com" and my user
>    id on that machine is "crumbastic", I should set:
> 
> (setq mail-sources '((imap :server "crazy.glue.com" :user "crumbastic")))
> 
>    right?
> 

My nnimap find my emailwithout specifing mail-sources.

> 2. What happens to gnus-secondary-select-methods?  Instead of:
> 
> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnfolder "")))
> 
>    I should now leave it empty, right?

You probably want
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
      '((nnml "")
	(nnimap ""
		(nnimap-address "crazy.glue.com"))))

> 
> 3. What happens to all my mail folders?  Can I pour them into the imap
>    magic lantern?  like, by respooling or something?

Moving artices betweenb nnimap and nnml work using B m.

> 
>    By the way, where do all my imap folders/mailboxes live anyway?  Is
>    this configurable?

You usually find the nnimap groups browsing the nnimap server from the
server buffer.

> 
> 4. How do I perform splitting?  I guess nnmail-split-methods doesn't
>    apply.  So, what's the right incantation?

The nnimap has its own splitting variable: "nnimap-split-rule".  You can
copy your nnmail-split-methods in there but be aware of the slight
differences between them: crosspost and no-match actions.
> 

> 5. The doc for the imap mail source specifier says:
> [...]

You probably want to read nnimap documatation that comses with nnimap.
Simon and Lars: shouldn't nnimap info be integrated into gnus info?

--

Yair Friedman.

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Simon Josefsson]

Yair Friedman (Jerusalem) <YAIRFR@Amdocs.com> writes:

> Simon and Lars: shouldn't nnimap info be integrated into gnus info?

Most already is. The stuff left in nnimap.texi are on the topic of
"Neat configuration tips" which doesn't really fit anywhere in the
Gnus manual. It would in a "Gnus for dummies" though. :-)

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Kai Großjohann]

David Maslen <david.maslen@iname.com> writes:

> Looks to me as though if I were to use imap, I would have to do
> it as if it were pop, because I rely heavily on my nnmail-splitting.

No, there is nnimap-split-rule which is similar to
nnmail-split-methods.  But I think there is no analogue to
nnmail-split-fancy in nnimap.

> I used to use procmail to split mail, but converted the rules to gnus,
> as I preferred to keep it all within xemacs in case one day I find
> myself with a windows desktop.

Some IMAP servers support Sieve, a server-side language for specifying
mail splitting.  It is less powerful than procmail in that it only
allows you to put a message into a folder, or to send it back, or to
delete it, or to send a message back.  I use Sieve with the Cyrus IMAP
server and I'm quite happy with it.

kai
-- 
This gubblick contains many nonsklarkish English flutzpahs,
but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context. -- David Moser

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Simon Josefsson]

David Maslen <david.maslen@iname.com> writes:

> Looks to me as though if I were to use imap, I would have to do
> it as if it were pop, because I rely heavily on my nnmail-splitting.

There is `nnimap-split-rule' which should have the same syntax (modulo
that your server might require you to prefix all group names with
"INBOX" or some such). I'm not sure fancy splitting works because I
don't use it.

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Simon Josefsson]

Denys Duchier <Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de> writes:

> Except that I keep getting the following complaint:
> 
>         group INBOX is not uidvalid
> 
> What does it mean?  How do I fix this?  It doesn't seem to cause any
> harm.

Like Kai said, remove the "uidvalidity" token in the group's
parameter. This is the major problem right now and should be fixed
soon.

> Also, in the server buffer I have now 2 imap entries
> 
>         nnimap:+nnimap:INBOX
>         nnimap:
> 
> What the heck is the first one?

Does the nnimap select method in `gnus-secondary-select-methods' match
the one you see if you do `G e' on nnimap:INBOX in your Group buffer?
If not, change the latter into the first and see if you can remember
how you created the group so we can fix it.

(pGnus in CVS fixes some places.)

Re: Need help switching to IMAP

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se> writes:

> Most already is. The stuff left in nnimap.texi are on the topic of
> "Neat configuration tips" which doesn't really fit anywhere in the
> Gnus manual. It would in a "Gnus for dummies" though. :-)

Well, I think you could do a "Neat configuration tips" subsection in
the nnimap section...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

HOWTO setup nnimap for the first time.

[David Maslen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se> writes:
> > Most already is. The stuff left in nnimap.texi are on the topic of
> > "Neat configuration tips" which doesn't really fit anywhere in the
> > Gnus manual. It would in a "Gnus for dummies" though. :-)
> 
> Well, I think you could do a "Neat configuration tips" subsection in
> the nnimap section...

Well the time has come, I want to use nnimap, so I'm going to set it
up for the first time and document it to make it easier for the next
guy. I'm using xemacs 21.1.8 and this weeks cvs pgnus.

First I had to ensure my imap server was working correctly.  To do
this, I had to add my name to the /etc/cram-md5.pwd file so that that
form of authentication would work. I wasn't able to get nnimap to use
login for plain text authentication. Don't know why.

In the *Group* buffer I pressed G-m to make a new inap group.
Answered the questions, pretty straight forward. Called it inbox, used
nnimap and typed in the name of my mailserver.

Commented out the line in my .gnus.el that used the popserver as a
spool

;nnmail-spool-file "po:dmm"

Restarted gnus got the error message about group INBOX is not uidvalid

Typed `G p' and removed the (uidvalidity ...) parenthesized item from
the list of parenthesized items. 

Sent my self some email. It seems to work.

Setup Mail splitting.
Added 
;; Spliting for IMAP
;Messages only appear in the first group they match
(setq nnimap-split-crosspost nil)
;Split the incomming mail from the INBOX
(setq nnimap-split-inbox '("INBOX"))

To my .gnus.el

Then copied my existing nnmail-split-methods to nnimap-split-rule 

Sent myself some more test mail.  All I have to do now is subscribe to
the new imap groups of the same names as my previous nnfolders. The
easiest way to do this seems to be wait until I have received email
for most of my splits, which causes the additional imap boxes to be
automatically created. Then press ^ in the *Group* buffer to get to
the server buffer, then edit the imap server listing. Subscribing to
the mailboxes that appear there.

One thing I didn't do, and not sure why/if I need to is change my
gnus-secondary-select-methods to look something like the following;

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
        '((nnfolder "")
          (nnimap "" (nnimap-address "mail.company.com"))))

This summary has been written after re reading the useful and
informative posts of a number of people on the ding mailing list. So
thanks to;

Denys Duchier <Denys.Duchier@ps.uni-sb.de>
Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se>
Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann)

but of course there were others....