Palm and Gnus

Palm and Gnus

[Ian Swainson]

Hi All,

I've had no response to queries about syncing Gnus and the Palm, so I'm going to
have a go at writing something to do it myself. I'd be grateful if someone could
answer a couple of questions about the Gnus side of things.

I am a complete amateur C and lisp programmer, so please bear with me.

Basically, the functionality I want is for all unread messages for any group at
the time of synchronisation to be sent to the Palm, and marked as read when they
are read on the Palm and synchronisation occurs, and vice-versa (marked as read
on the Palm if they were transferred there but were then read in Gnus).
Any mail composed on the Palm is sent via Gnus, and a copy kept in the relevant
Gnus folder.

So, my technique, I reckon is as follows:
1. I'm going to use pilot-link's pilot-mail as a starting point
2. At synchronisation I'll need to loop thru each nnml group and check the
.newsrc file for the filename of the mail (where is the code in Gnus that does
this?) to see what has been read already. I'll need also to check what is on the
Palm already to make sure I avoid duplicates.
3. Mark all messages that are read on the Palm as read in Gnus (by adding the
filenumber to the .newsrc file)? Will this affect the expiry rules?
4. Mark any messages read in Gnus and transferred to the Palm previously as read
on the Palm
5. Finally get any mails composed on the Palm and ... where can I put the mails
so that Gnus will send them? (I'd also like Gnus to add the sig to them)

I'd be grateful for someone who is much more familiar with Gnus than I to point
out the right way to do the Gnus interaction parts - It'd be (I'm sure) much
better to use Gnuserv and Gnus's inbuilt functions than manipulating the Gnus
files directly? Pointers to relevent bits of code in Gnus would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time,
Ian

-- 
fortune says:

Leibowitz's Rule:
	When hammering a nail, you will never hit your
	finger if you hold the hammer with both hands.

~~~~~~~~~~~ Made in Ireland using GNU Emacs ~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Swainson           Kia Ora!         ian@qui-oui.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.qui-oui.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Daniel Pittman]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Ian Swainson wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I've had no response to queries about syncing Gnus and the Palm, so
> I'm going to have a go at writing something to do it myself. I'd be
> grateful if someone could answer a couple of questions about the Gnus
> side of things.

Sorry, I was going to reply and got distracted. Your best bet for
getting this working is probably going to be:

1. Instally an IMAP server on your machine (Cyrus or Courier, not
   UW-IMAP).
2. Migrate your existing groups into IMAP.
3. Configure Gnus to talk to the IMAP server.
4. Use an IMAP client on the Palm device to work with the mail.

That way you get the disconnected operation and the syncing and
everything done for you with a solution that others maintain (IMAP),
rather than writing it yourself.

       Daniel

-- 
As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I
thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life -- so I became a scientist.
This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls.
        -- Matt Cartmill

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Frank Schmitt]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

>1. Instally an IMAP server on your machine (Cyrus or Courier, not
>   UW-IMAP).

Why not UW-IMAP?

-- 
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
19. Dezember 2001

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Robin S. Socha]

* Frank Schmitt <usereplyto@Frank-Schmitt.net> writes:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

>> 1. Instally an IMAP server on your machine (Cyrus or Courier, not
>> UW-IMAP).

> Why not UW-IMAP?

Because UW-IMAP (like pine) is a piece of shit written by some stone-age
hippies whose major security concern seems to be a consistent amount of
Purple Hearts in their drawers.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&q=uw+imap+security+exploit&lr= 

Courier is the way to go. End of discussion. If you want to talk about
this further, read the bugtraq (and related) archives first.

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Frank Schmitt]

"Robin S. Socha" <robin-dated-1000720587.c3807d@socha.net> writes:

>Because UW-IMAP (like pine) is a piece of shit written by some stone-age
>hippies whose major security concern seems to be a consistent amount of
>Purple Hearts in their drawers.
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&q=uw+imap+security+exploit&lr= 
>
>Courier is the way to go. End of discussion. If you want to talk about
>this further, read the bugtraq (and related) archives first.

Ok, seems as I should try if Courier will run under Cygwin, too.

(Please don't tell me to use Linux, I've got Linux on a second partition
but need Windows and am too lazy to reboot everytime)

-- 
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
19. Dezember 2001

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Daniel Pittman]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Frank Schmitt wrote:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
> 
>>1. Instally an IMAP server on your machine (Cyrus or Courier, not
>>   UW-IMAP).
> 
> Why not UW-IMAP?

The performance of the default (mbox) back-end is poor and I have
/never/ been able to locate information on how to use another.

Also, their code is not designed with security in mind and, thus, not
something that I really have much faith in.

          Daniel

-- 
I never watch television because it's an ugly piece of furniture, gives off a
hideous light, and, besides, I'm against free entertainment.
        -- John Waters

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Ian Swainson]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> 1. Instally an IMAP server on your machine (Cyrus or Courier, not
>    UW-IMAP).
> 2. Migrate your existing groups into IMAP.
> 3. Configure Gnus to talk to the IMAP server.
> 4. Use an IMAP client on the Palm device to work with the mail.
>
> That way you get the disconnected operation and the syncing and
> everything done for you with a solution that others maintain (IMAP),
> rather than writing it yourself.

Hmm. This is a great idea. However, my mail sources are both POP3 - what I want
is a program which will get all my POP3 mail and pass it on to the IMAP
server. Is this what fetchmail does, or is that overkill? Will fetchmail pass
the mail from POP3 to the IMAP server?

Thanks a million for your advice.

Cheers,
Ian

-- 
fortune says:

Wiggum: Try to talk her out of there.
        [hands Homer a megaphone]
        But don't put your lips on it or anything.
		-- "Homer Alone"

~~~~~~~~~~~ Made in Ireland using GNU Emacs ~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Swainson           Kia Ora!         ian@qui-oui.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.qui-oui.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: Palm and Gnus

[Daniel Pittman]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Ian Swainson wrote:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
> 
>> 1. Instally an IMAP server on your machine (Cyrus or Courier, not
>>    UW-IMAP).
>> 2. Migrate your existing groups into IMAP.
>> 3. Configure Gnus to talk to the IMAP server.
>> 4. Use an IMAP client on the Palm device to work with the mail.
>>
>> That way you get the disconnected operation and the syncing and
>> everything done for you with a solution that others maintain (IMAP),
>> rather than writing it yourself.
> 
> Hmm. This is a great idea. However, my mail sources are both POP3 -
> what I want is a program which will get all my POP3 mail and pass it
> on to the IMAP server. Is this what fetchmail does, or is that
> overkill? 

It's what fetchmail does, and it's pretty much /all/ that fetchmail
does. This is the job it was designed for, basically.

> Will fetchmail pass the mail from POP3 to the IMAP server?

Not directly, no. What it will do is fetch email from a POP3 mailbox and
then feed it to something else that will push it into your IMAP server.

This might be an SMTP-capable MTA on your machine (such as sendmail and
co) or an IMAP-server specific tool (such as the deliver client in
Cyrus.)

It's not that hard to get working and, better than that, it's fully
documented. Mmmm, documented. :)

If you have trouble getting it going, ask around and you should find it
easy to get help.

     Daniel

-- 
They're much more interested in having a personal life, but they're
having trouble figuring out how because they see the people ahead of
them working 60 to 80 hours a week.
        -- Margaret Regan, Towers Perrin, on corporate recruits under 25

IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Fabien Penso]

 >> Will fetchmail pass the mail from POP3 to the IMAP server?

 > Not directly, no. What it will do is fetch email from a POP3 mailbox and
 > then feed it to something else that will push it into your IMAP server.

 > This might be an SMTP-capable MTA on your machine (such as sendmail and
 > co) or an IMAP-server specific tool (such as the deliver client in
 > Cyrus.)

 > It's not that hard to get working and, better than that, it's fully
 > documented. Mmmm, documented. :)

 > If you have trouble getting it going, ask around and you should find it
 > easy to get help.

By the way. Would I get better performance if I was using a local IMAP
server on my laptop rather than nnml groups ? I have about 16.000 mails
in my main mbox, I just wonder how to improve perf...

Thanks.

-- 
Fabien Penso <penso@linuxfr.org>
http://perso.LinuxFR.org/penso/
GnuPG key: 1024D/22F38AF3

Re: IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Simon Josefsson]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Fabien Penso wrote:

> By the way. Would I get better performance if I was using a local IMAP
> server on my laptop rather than nnml groups ? I have about 16.000 mails
> in my main mbox, I just wonder how to improve perf...

Probably not.  If your Gnus runs on the same laptop, IMAP would only add
overhead.

Re: IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Kai Großjohann]

Fabien Penso <penso@linuxfr.org> writes:

> By the way. Would I get better performance if I was using a local IMAP
> server on my laptop rather than nnml groups ? I have about 16.000 mails
> in my main mbox, I just wonder how to improve perf...

I wonder if nnmaildir might be even faster than nnml?  I noticed some
talking about nnmaildir caching stuff in main memory.  Paul?

kai
-- 
Symbol's function definition is void: signature

Re: IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Paul Jarc]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) wrote:
> I wonder if nnmaildir might be even faster than nnml?  I noticed some
> talking about nnmaildir caching stuff in main memory.  Paul?

I've been told nnmaildir feels faster, and that was even before the
new marks stuff was added to nnml; I can only imagine that would make
nnml slower.

nnmaildir does cache things in memory where (AFAIK) other backends do
not.  It's possible that this is not such a great idea, but if you've
got the memory, it probably speeds things up a little.  If you don't
have the memory, you can turn off some of the caching.

I would not be surprised to learn that nnmaildir is much slower on a
block-structured filesystem.  ReiserFS (which is not block-structured)
handles lots of small files quickly and space-efficiently, and
nnmaildir takes advantage of that.

All this is subjective/speculative, though.  I haven't done any
measurements.


paul

Re: IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Kai Großjohann]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

> I would not be surprised to learn that nnmaildir is much slower on a
> block-structured filesystem.  ReiserFS (which is not block-structured)
> handles lots of small files quickly and space-efficiently, and
> nnmaildir takes advantage of that.

Well, I don't expect nnml to be better than nnmaildir in this case.
IIUC, both use one file per message.

But since NOV files were recently added to nnfolder, that one might be
a real alternative for some people.

kai
-- 
Symbol's function definition is void: signature

Re: IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Paul Jarc]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) wrote:
> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>> I would not be surprised to learn that nnmaildir is much slower on a
>> block-structured filesystem.  ReiserFS (which is not block-structured)
>> handles lots of small files quickly and space-efficiently, and
>> nnmaildir takes advantage of that.
>
> Well, I don't expect nnml to be better than nnmaildir in this case.
> IIUC, both use one file per message.

Yes, but nnmaildir also uses one NOV file per message.  So startup
would probably be significantly slower.  (Afterwards, the NOV data is
typically cached in memory.)


paul

Re: IMAP vs nnml ? (was: Palm and Gnus)

[Nuutti Kotivuori]

Fabien Penso wrote:
> By the way. Would I get better performance if I was using a local
> IMAP server on my laptop rather than nnml groups ? I have about
> 16.000 mails in my main mbox, I just wonder how to improve perf...

If you run an IMAP server that has a database backend, that might help
things.

-- Naked