* Gnus bugfixing is broken. @ 2011-03-14 10:11 David Kastrup 2011-03-14 14:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2011-03-14 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding I've used M-x gnus-bug RET to report a bug to bugs@gnus.org, and while it appears on the local group gnus-bugs (?) on the NNTP server at news.gnus.org along with several other threads, it would appear that those other threads have been injected automatically by other channels (apparently a bug reporting system, since the subject lines contain bug numbers). It does not appear like the bug channel fed directly by the gnus-bug command is actually being read by anybody. It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently (namely standard Emacs installations). Could you please make gnus-bug report somewhere else than what amounts to /dev/null? There is nothing to be gained by sabotaging bug reports. Thanks. -- David Kastrup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-14 10:11 Gnus bugfixing is broken David Kastrup @ 2011-03-14 14:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-14 15:17 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-14 19:13 ` message-yank-original issue (was: Gnus bugfixing is broken.) Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 10:06 ` Gnus bugfixing is broken Ted Zlatanov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-14 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Kastrup; +Cc: ding David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes: > It does not appear like the bug channel fed directly by the gnus-bug > command is actually being read by anybody. I read it daily. But I've been busy, so I haven't responded to anything for a week. > It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped > being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently > (namely standard Emacs installations). You reported it Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:26:17 +0100 (6 days, 19 minutes, 18 seconds ago) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:26:17 +0100 (6 days, 19 minutes, 19 seconds ago) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:26:17 +0100 (6 days, 19 minutes, 20 seconds ago) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:26:17 +0100 (6 days, 19 minutes, 21 seconds ago) to gnus-bug. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-14 14:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-14 15:17 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-14 16:12 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-03-14 16:22 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2011-03-14 15:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1901 bytes --] Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes: > >> It does not appear like the bug channel fed directly by the gnus-bug >> command is actually being read by anybody. > > I read it daily. But I've been busy, so I haven't responded to anything > for a week. > >> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped >> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently >> (namely standard Emacs installations). > > You reported it > > Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:26:17 +0100 (6 days, 19 minutes, 18 seconds ago) "stopped being functional" is not the same as "you reported it". Sure, I reported it about a week ago. It has been several days before that that it appeared in the upstream git archive of Emacs. It presumably has been in Gnus upstream several days before that. There has been _no_ indication that my report has been read or received by anybody at all. The above message by yours is the first such indication (the original message remains without followup or reply). It was rather hard to check for replies/reactions anyway, since the gnus-bug list does not appear on gmane or other typical mailing list replicators. One can only look at news.gnus.org itself. Finding the information where the gnus bug list ends up is not easy, either: on <URL:http://www.gnus.org/resources.html>, you find the sentence If you want to report Gnus bugs, you should send them to bugs@gnus.org. The bug reports (and responses from the Gnus Bugfixing Girls & Boys) can be read from Norway. The last word in that sentence ("Norway") happens to be a hyperlink with the news: protocol. In the unlikely case that your system will resolve such hyperlinks to your favorite newsreader (an educated guess being "Gnus"), you'll get there. Letting your system resolve such links requires a helper application like [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #2: emacs-url --] [-- Type: text/x-sh, Size: 72 bytes --] #!/bin/sh /usr/local/bin/emacsclient -a "" --eval "(browse-url \"$1\")" [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 377 bytes --] installed in your binary path and your system knowing about it. I should guess that the ratio of Gnus users for which this is the case is less than 5%. So the only visible reaction I get after about a week is a chastisement for thinking something in the bug reporting process appears to be broken. To be honest, I am not exactly convinced otherwise yet. -- David Kastrup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-14 15:17 ` David Kastrup @ 2011-03-14 16:12 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-03-14 17:47 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 2011-03-14 16:22 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-03-14 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:17:55 +0100, David wrote: > So the only visible reaction I get after about a week is a chastisement > for thinking something in the bug reporting process appears to be > broken. > To be honest, I am not exactly convinced otherwise yet. Try looking at it from the other side: You have reported a bug which has not been fixed within a week, and from that you go directly to declaring that bugfixing in Gnus in general is broken. Aren't you taking overgeneralization to a new extreme here? Best regards, Adam -- "Money always takes the place of life" Adam Sjøgren asjo@koldfront.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-14 16:12 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-03-14 17:47 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Sivaram Neelakantan @ 2011-03-14 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Mon, Mar 14 2011,Adam Sjøgren wrote: > On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:17:55 +0100, David wrote: > >> So the only visible reaction I get after about a week is a chastisement >> for thinking something in the bug reporting process appears to be >> broken. > >> To be honest, I am not exactly convinced otherwise yet. > > Try looking at it from the other side: You have reported a bug which has > not been fixed within a week, and from that you go directly to declaring > that bugfixing in Gnus in general is broken. > > Aren't you taking overgeneralization to a new extreme here? [snipped 5 lines] maybe he left out 'bug reporting process *using the suggested email address* ' is broken. :-) Anyways Lars had a looksee, so something is bound to happen. sivaram -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-14 15:17 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-14 16:12 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2011-03-14 16:22 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-14 16:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes: > To be honest, I am not exactly convinced otherwise yet. *sad face* -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* message-yank-original issue (was: Gnus bugfixing is broken.) 2011-03-14 10:11 Gnus bugfixing is broken David Kastrup 2011-03-14 14:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-14 19:13 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-14 19:38 ` message-yank-original issue Antoine Levitt 2011-03-15 9:34 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 10:06 ` Gnus bugfixing is broken Ted Zlatanov 2 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-14 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? (In case it gets dropped, the patch is below.) Ted diff --git a/lisp/message.el b/lisp/message.el index 4fa55ef..c939303 100644 --- a/lisp/message.el +++ b/lisp/message.el @@ -3792,13 +3792,13 @@ prefix, and don't delete any headers." (goto-char (mark t)) (insert-before-markers ?\n) (goto-char pt)))) - (case message-cite-reply-position - ('above + (cond + ((eq 'above message-cite-reply-position) (message-goto-body) (insert body-text) (insert (if (bolp) "\n" "\n\n")) (message-goto-body)) - ('below + ((eq 'below message-cite-reply-position) (message-goto-signature))) ;; Add a `message-setup-very-last-hook' here? ;; Add `gnus-article-highlight-citation' here? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 19:13 ` message-yank-original issue (was: Gnus bugfixing is broken.) Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-14 19:38 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-14 19:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 9:34 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-14 19:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding 14/03/11 20:13, Ted Zlatanov > On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: > > DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped > DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently > DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). > > I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? > > (In case it gets dropped, the patch is below.) > > Ted > > > diff --git a/lisp/message.el b/lisp/message.el > index 4fa55ef..c939303 100644 > --- a/lisp/message.el > +++ b/lisp/message.el > @@ -3792,13 +3792,13 @@ prefix, and don't delete any headers." > (goto-char (mark t)) > (insert-before-markers ?\n) > (goto-char pt)))) > - (case message-cite-reply-position > - ('above > + (cond > + ((eq 'above message-cite-reply-position) > (message-goto-body) > (insert body-text) > (insert (if (bolp) "\n" "\n\n")) > (message-goto-body)) > - ('below > + ((eq 'below message-cite-reply-position) > (message-goto-signature))) > ;; Add a `message-setup-very-last-hook' here? > ;; Add `gnus-article-highlight-citation' here? Woops, this one is my fault. Sorry, I didn't think about that. Any reason why cl isn't loaded by default, by the way? And is it considered bad practice for packages to require cl? Antoine ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 19:38 ` message-yank-original issue Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-14 19:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-15 15:29 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-14 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:38:06 +0100 Antoine Levitt <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> wrote: AL> Woops, this one is my fault. Sorry, I didn't think about that. Yeah I didn't notice it either. Is my patch a correct fix? Also recently users reported on gnu.emacs.help (and I can confirm) that the cursor in a reply is below the citation line but above the cited text. Is that related? It's funny, I didn't even notice that behavior until I saw the report... My fingers took care of the motion on their own. AL> Any reason why cl isn't loaded by default, by the way? And is it AL> considered bad practice for packages to require cl? For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from CL functions and macros. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 19:47 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-14 22:04 ` Ted Zlatanov ` (2 more replies) 2011-03-15 15:29 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-14 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding 14/03/11 20:47, Ted Zlatanov > On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:38:06 +0100 Antoine Levitt > <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> wrote: > > AL> Woops, this one is my fault. Sorry, I didn't think about that. > > Yeah I didn't notice it either. Is my patch a correct fix? I think so, it's functionally equivalent to the old code (I'm always confused about the = vs eq vs eql vs equal vs equalp bit (do we really need FIVE subtly different comparison functions?), but both 'equal' and 'eq' are equivalent in this case - although comparison is done with equal in another part of the code) > > Also recently users reported on gnu.emacs.help (and I can confirm) that > the cursor in a reply is below the citation line but above the cited > text. Is that related? It's funny, I didn't even notice that behavior > until I saw the report... My fingers took care of the motion on their > own. I'm not sure what you mean. Wasn't this the case before? I always had this behaviour, and that was part of the motivation for the patch. To be clear, we're talking about 14/03/11 20:47, Ted Zlatanov POINT HERE> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:38:06 +0100 Antoine Levitt right? Looking at the thread on gnu.emacs.help, it seems to be an user asking about the option of replying above the quoted text (igniting the troll with "But normally, we will say hello first, right?" :) ), so I think what he wants is to set the new variable to 'above. > > AL> Any reason why cl isn't loaded by default, by the way? And is it > AL> considered bad practice for packages to require cl? > > For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of > Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from > CL functions and macros. But what's the rationale behind not loading it as part of the standard emacs load? Is it a loading time issue? The command time emacs -nw -Q --eval "(require 'cl)" --eval "(kill-emacs)" does not appear to be noticeably longer than the same one without cl, on the two machines I've tried. (but maybe they're both too fast to measure it) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-14 22:04 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 0:36 ` Michael Welsh Duggan 2011-03-15 15:30 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-14 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 22:02:03 +0100 Antoine Levitt <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> wrote: AL> 14/03/11 20:47, Ted Zlatanov >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:38:06 +0100 Antoine Levitt >> <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> wrote: >> AL> Woops, this one is my fault. Sorry, I didn't think about that. >> >> Yeah I didn't notice it either. Is my patch a correct fix? AL> I think so, it's functionally equivalent to the old code (I'm always AL> confused about the = vs eq vs eql vs equal vs equalp bit (do we really AL> need FIVE subtly different comparison functions?), but both 'equal' and AL> 'eq' are equivalent in this case - although comparison is done with AL> equal in another part of the code) Heh, yeah, Lisp takes equality very seriously. Don't forget `string-equal'. >> Also recently users reported on gnu.emacs.help (and I can confirm) that >> the cursor in a reply is below the citation line but above the cited >> text. Is that related? It's funny, I didn't even notice that behavior >> until I saw the report... My fingers took care of the motion on their >> own. AL> I'm not sure what you mean. Wasn't this the case before? I always had AL> this behaviour, and that was part of the motivation for the patch. To be AL> clear, we're talking about AL> 14/03/11 20:47, Ted Zlatanov AL> POINT HERE> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:38:06 +0100 Antoine Levitt AL> right? Yes. But maybe I had special code for this... Never mind me... AL> Any reason why cl isn't loaded by default, by the way? And is it AL> considered bad practice for packages to require cl? >> >> For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of >> Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from >> CL functions and macros. AL> But what's the rationale behind not loading it as part of the standard AL> emacs load? Is it a loading time issue? The command AL> time emacs -nw -Q --eval "(require 'cl)" --eval "(kill-emacs)" AL> does not appear to be noticeably longer than the same one without cl, on AL> the two machines I've tried. (but maybe they're both too fast to measure AL> it) It's been discussed a lot on emacs-devel and even the usage of CL in general code was discouraged until recently (only cl-macs.el definitions are OK). I think CL is not badly needed here so it's hard to justify it, but if there is a good reason to ask for those functions we will. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-14 22:04 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 0:36 ` Michael Welsh Duggan 2011-03-15 15:30 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Michael Welsh Duggan @ 2011-03-15 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Antoine Levitt <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> writes: > 14/03/11 20:47, Ted Zlatanov: > >> For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of >> Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from >> CL functions and macros. > > But what's the rationale behind not loading it as part of the standard > emacs load? Is it a loading time issue? The command > > time emacs -nw -Q --eval "(require 'cl)" --eval "(kill-emacs)" > > does not appear to be noticeably longer than the same one without cl, on > the two machines I've tried. (but maybe they're both too fast to measure > it) My understanding is that the reason is twofold: 1) The cl functions don't have their own namespace. 2) The cl functions don't follow the same conventions as emacs lisp. (Keyword arguments being a good example. These are what I recall RMS's objections to be, and are not mine. (I require cl as the very first non-comment in my .emacs.el.) -- Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-14 22:04 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 0:36 ` Michael Welsh Duggan @ 2011-03-15 15:30 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Antoine Levitt <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> writes: > But what's the rationale behind not loading it as part of the standard > emacs load? Is it a loading time issue? The command > > time emacs -nw -Q --eval "(require 'cl)" --eval "(kill-emacs)" > > does not appear to be noticeably longer than the same one without cl, on > the two machines I've tried. (but maybe they're both too fast to measure > it) It's a political, not a technical issue. The Emacs maintainers have historically not favoured Common Lisp, and does not want cl.el to be loaded unless a user explicitly requests it to be loaded. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 19:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-15 15:29 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 15:49 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of > Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from > CL functions and macros. You can use cl-macs macros in Emacs code (included the Gnus code), but not the run-time cl.el (and friends) functions. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-15 15:29 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 15:49 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:29:03 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: >> For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of >> Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from >> CL functions and macros. LMI> You can use cl-macs macros in Emacs code (included the Gnus code), but LMI> not the run-time cl.el (and friends) functions. I know, but I didn't see a benefit in this specific case. If you disagree, go ahead and change it. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-15 15:49 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > I know, but I didn't see a benefit in this specific case. If you > disagree, go ahead and change it. No, I think using `cond' is better than `case' in most cases (including this) since more Emacs programmers are familiar with `cond'. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-14 19:13 ` message-yank-original issue (was: Gnus bugfixing is broken.) Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-14 19:38 ` message-yank-original issue Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-15 9:34 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 9:48 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-26 19:34 ` Sven Joachim 1 sibling, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 9:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding; +Cc: David Kastrup On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:13:15 -0500 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: TZ> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). TZ> I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? Since I didn't hear back I've pushed this patch. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-15 9:34 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 9:48 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-15 10:01 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-26 19:34 ` Sven Joachim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2011-03-15 9:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > The following message is a courtesy copy of an article > that has been posted to gmane.emacs.gnus.general as well. I hope my Cc to ding is the right channel corresponding to the above gmane group. > On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:13:15 -0500 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: > > TZ> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: > DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped > DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently > DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). > > TZ> I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? > > Since I didn't hear back I've pushed this patch. I am not hourly checking all the channels where I have written about the lack of response. And it is not overly likely that other people writing bug reports will do so either (it is not even easy to figure out for non-subscribers where those lists are being archived). At the current point of time, the fix does not appear to have percolated to the git mirror of Emacs which is what I am using. I'll probably go hunting for that patch sometime this day if that does not change and be reporting back then to wherever I'll find the patch posted. -- David Kastrup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-15 9:48 ` David Kastrup @ 2011-03-15 10:01 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:48:30 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: >> The following message is a courtesy copy of an article >> that has been posted to gmane.emacs.gnus.general as well. DK> I hope my Cc to ding is the right channel corresponding to the above DK> gmane group. Yes. >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:13:15 -0500 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: >> TZ> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). >> TZ> I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? >> >> Since I didn't hear back I've pushed this patch. DK> I am not hourly checking all the channels where I have written about the DK> lack of response. And it is not overly likely that other people writing DK> bug reports will do so either (it is not even easy to figure out for DK> non-subscribers where those lists are being archived). I didn't mean to chastise or complain, it was just FYI. I also posted the patch on the gnus-bug newsgroup/mailing list. I didn't wait any longer because it seems like a pretty critical bug for many Emacs users. DK> At the current point of time, the fix does not appear to have percolated DK> to the git mirror of Emacs which is what I am using. I'll probably go DK> hunting for that patch sometime this day if that does not change and be DK> reporting back then to wherever I'll find the patch posted. OK, thank you. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-15 9:34 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 9:48 ` David Kastrup @ 2011-03-26 19:34 ` Sven Joachim 2011-03-28 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Sven Joachim @ 2011-03-26 19:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, David Kastrup, Stefan Monnier, Katsumi Yamaoka On 2011-03-15 10:34 +0100, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:13:15 -0500 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: > > TZ> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: > DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped > DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently > DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). > > TZ> I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? > > Since I didn't hear back I've pushed this patch. Alas, this patch was reverted later that day in commit 5edabb7b1 (Author Stefan and committed by Katsumi, apparently in merging changes between Gnus and Emacs), so as of now message-yank-original still requires cl to be loaded at runtime. :-( Could you please restore the message.el version from commit 698d90df ? Regards, Sven ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-26 19:34 ` Sven Joachim @ 2011-03-28 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-28 19:57 ` Sven Joachim ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-28 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding; +Cc: David Kastrup, Stefan Monnier, Katsumi Yamaoka On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 20:34:17 +0100 Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> wrote: SJ> On 2011-03-15 10:34 +0100, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:13:15 -0500 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: >> TZ> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). >> TZ> I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? >> >> Since I didn't hear back I've pushed this patch. SJ> Alas, this patch was reverted later that day in commit 5edabb7b1 (Author SJ> Stefan and committed by Katsumi, apparently in merging changes between SJ> Gnus and Emacs), so as of now message-yank-original still requires cl to SJ> be loaded at runtime. :-( Could you please restore the message.el SJ> version from commit 698d90df ? I'm not sure what's going on with message.el. It clearly says (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) so it should not be erroring out. Stefan wanted to go back to using `case' instead of `cond' so I'll defer to him. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-28 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-28 19:57 ` Sven Joachim 2011-03-28 20:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-28 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-03-28 20:41 ` Stefan Monnier 2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Sven Joachim @ 2011-03-28 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, David Kastrup, Stefan Monnier, Katsumi Yamaoka On 2011-03-28 21:05 +0200, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 20:34:17 +0100 Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> wrote: > > SJ> On 2011-03-15 10:34 +0100, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:13:15 -0500 Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: >>> > TZ> On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: > DK> It has now been about two weeks that message-yank-original has stopped > DK> being functional for installations that don't have cl loaded permanently > DK> (namely standard Emacs installations). >>> > TZ> I posted a fix on the bug list, can you reply there if it worked? >>> >>> Since I didn't hear back I've pushed this patch. > > SJ> Alas, this patch was reverted later that day in commit 5edabb7b1 (Author > SJ> Stefan and committed by Katsumi, apparently in merging changes between > SJ> Gnus and Emacs), so as of now message-yank-original still requires cl to > SJ> be loaded at runtime. :-( Could you please restore the message.el > SJ> version from commit 698d90df ? > > I'm not sure what's going on with message.el. It clearly says > > (eval-when-compile > (require 'cl)) > > so it should not be erroring out. IIUC, the problem is that the bulk of message-yank-original, including the (case …) statement, is inside a backquoted list, so the byte-compiler will leave it alone. > Stefan wanted to go back to using > `case' instead of `cond' so I'll defer to him. Cheers, Sven ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-28 19:57 ` Sven Joachim @ 2011-03-28 20:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-28 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding; +Cc: David Kastrup, Stefan Monnier, Katsumi Yamaoka On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:57:26 +0200 Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> wrote: SJ> On 2011-03-28 21:05 +0200, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> I'm not sure what's going on with message.el. It clearly says >> >> (eval-when-compile >> (require 'cl)) >> >> so it should not be erroring out. SJ> IIUC, the problem is that the bulk of message-yank-original, including SJ> the (case …) statement, is inside a backquoted list, so the SJ> byte-compiler will leave it alone. >> Stefan wanted to go back to using >> `case' instead of `cond' so I'll defer to him. I see, thanks for explaining. Stefan, do you want me to fix it or will you? Thanks Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-28 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-28 19:57 ` Sven Joachim @ 2011-03-28 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-03-29 5:37 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-28 20:41 ` Stefan Monnier 2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-28 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, David Kastrup, Katsumi Yamaoka > I'm not sure what's going on with message.el. It clearly says > (eval-when-compile > (require 'cl)) > so it should not be erroring out. Stefan wanted to go back to using > `case' instead of `cond' so I'll defer to him. I see what's going on: (defun message-yank-original (&optional arg) [...] (eval `(let ,message-cite-style [...] (case message-cite-reply-position [...] Now, why on earth is this code using the evil `eval'? Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-28 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-29 5:37 ` Antoine Levitt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Antoine Levitt @ 2011-03-29 5:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding 28/03/11 22:35, Stefan Monnier >> I'm not sure what's going on with message.el. It clearly says > >> (eval-when-compile >> (require 'cl)) > >> so it should not be erroring out. Stefan wanted to go back to using >> `case' instead of `cond' so I'll defer to him. > > I see what's going on: > > (defun message-yank-original (&optional arg) > [...] > (eval > `(let ,message-cite-style > [...] > (case message-cite-reply-position > [...] > > > Now, why on earth is this code using the evil `eval'? > > > Stefan Ah, that's my fault. I didn't know how to do it any other way (message-cite-style contains a let-style list of attributes, so this seemed like a natural way to do it). I used eval and mentioned the code might use some improvment, but nobody touched it. What's the preferred way to do this? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-28 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-28 19:57 ` Sven Joachim 2011-03-28 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-28 20:41 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-03-29 14:55 ` Ted Zlatanov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-28 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, David Kastrup, Katsumi Yamaoka > I'm not sure what's going on with message.el. It clearly says > (eval-when-compile > (require 'cl)) > so it should not be erroring out. Stefan wanted to go back to using > `case' instead of `cond' so I'll defer to him. How 'bout the patch below, which makes the bulk of the eval'd code visible to the byte-compiler, as god intended it to be. Stefan === modified file 'lisp/gnus/message.el' --- lisp/gnus/message.el 2011-03-18 02:09:58 +0000 +++ lisp/gnus/message.el 2011-03-28 20:38:41 +0000 @@ -3721,22 +3721,9 @@ (while (re-search-forward citexp nil t) (replace-match (if remove "" "\n")))))) -(defun message-yank-original (&optional arg) - "Insert the message being replied to, if any. -Puts point before the text and mark after. -Normally indents each nonblank line ARG spaces (default 3). However, -if `message-yank-prefix' is non-nil, insert that prefix on each line. - -This function uses `message-cite-function' to do the actual citing. - -Just \\[universal-argument] as argument means don't indent, insert no -prefix, and don't delete any headers." - (interactive "P") +(defun message--yank-original-internal (arg) (let ((modified (buffer-modified-p)) body-text) - ;; eval the let forms contained in message-cite-style - (eval - `(let ,message-cite-style (when (and message-reply-buffer message-cite-function) (when (equal message-cite-reply-position 'above) @@ -3776,7 +3763,23 @@ ;; Add a `message-setup-very-last-hook' here? ;; Add `gnus-article-highlight-citation' here? (unless modified - (setq message-checksum (message-checksum)))))))) + (setq message-checksum (message-checksum)))))) + +(defun message-yank-original (&optional arg) + "Insert the message being replied to, if any. +Puts point before the text and mark after. +Normally indents each nonblank line ARG spaces (default 3). However, +if `message-yank-prefix' is non-nil, insert that prefix on each line. + +This function uses `message-cite-function' to do the actual citing. + +Just \\[universal-argument] as argument means don't indent, insert no +prefix, and don't delete any headers." + (interactive "P") + ;; eval the let forms contained in message-cite-style + (eval + `(let ,message-cite-style + (message--yank-original-internal ',arg)))) (defun message-yank-buffer (buffer) "Insert BUFFER into the current buffer and quote it." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-28 20:41 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-29 14:55 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-29 15:08 ` David Kastrup 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-29 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: ding, David Kastrup, Katsumi Yamaoka On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:41:38 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> wrote: SM> How 'bout the patch below, which makes the bulk of the eval'd code SM> visible to the byte-compiler, as god intended it to be. Looks good, committed to Gnus. On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:37:08 +0200 Antoine Levitt <antoine.levitt@gmail.com> wrote: AL> I used eval and mentioned the code might use some improvment, but AL> nobody touched it. What's the preferred way to do this? The way Stefan did it is usually OK. You could have also maybe done it with macros. It's kind of an ugly construct but that's not your fault :) Thanks Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: message-yank-original issue 2011-03-29 14:55 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-29 15:08 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-29 15:20 ` Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch (was: message-yank-original issue) Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2011-03-29 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, ding, Katsumi Yamaoka Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:41:38 -0400 Stefan Monnier > <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> wrote: > > SM> How 'bout the patch below, which makes the bulk of the eval'd code > SM> visible to the byte-compiler, as god intended it to be. > > Looks good, committed to Gnus. Disclaimer: have not actually analyzed any code to any reasonable degree and am just brainstorming. Well, the original idea as far as I can see was to eval a bunch of let-bindings and let the inner construct be evaluated with this set of bindings in effect. Byte-compiling the inner stuff in the lexical binding branch would appear to defeat that intent. Probably a good idea to overthink the whole message-variable concept and its implementation in gnus. -- David Kastrup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch (was: message-yank-original issue) 2011-03-29 15:08 ` David Kastrup @ 2011-03-29 15:20 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-29 20:16 ` Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-29 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Kastrup; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, ding On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:08:07 +0200 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> Well, the original idea as far as I can see was to eval a bunch of DK> let-bindings and let the inner construct be evaluated with this set of DK> bindings in effect. DK> Byte-compiling the inner stuff in the lexical binding branch would DK> appear to defeat that intent. DK> Probably a good idea to overthink the whole message-variable concept and DK> its implementation in gnus. I'm not familiar with the lexical binding branch. Is there a developer guide for ensuring compatibility with that branch? And are you (and Stefan) asking the Gnus developers to invest time in that compatibility? The reason I ask is that Gnus is full of creative solutions using eval and macros so I'd like to make sure we don't approach this as a single fix for the lexical binding branch that suddenly sets the expectation that the rest of Gnus has to be compatible as well. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch 2011-03-29 15:20 ` Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch (was: message-yank-original issue) Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-29 20:16 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-03-29 20:53 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-29 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: David Kastrup, ding > I'm not familiar with the lexical binding branch. Is there a developer > guide for ensuring compatibility with that branch? And are you (and > Stefan) asking the Gnus developers to invest time in that compatibility? It's the other way: the branch has to ensure compatibility. So there's nothing to worry about for you. But if you intend to use the lexical-binding mode for some of Gnus's code, you'll have to adjust a few things (mostly make sure all uses of dynamic scoping are duly declared via defvar before the first use). Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch 2011-03-29 20:16 ` Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-29 20:53 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-30 0:42 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-29 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: David Kastrup, ding On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:16:29 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> wrote: >> I'm not familiar with the lexical binding branch. Is there a developer >> guide for ensuring compatibility with that branch? And are you (and >> Stefan) asking the Gnus developers to invest time in that compatibility? SM> It's the other way: the branch has to ensure compatibility. So there's SM> nothing to worry about for you. But if you intend to use the SM> lexical-binding mode for some of Gnus's code, you'll have to adjust SM> a few things (mostly make sure all uses of dynamic scoping are duly SM> declared via defvar before the first use). Is there an example of how to do this properly, how to test that it's correct, and is there any way to catch it at the byte-compile stage? Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch 2011-03-29 20:53 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-30 0:42 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-04-08 5:51 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-30 0:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: David Kastrup, ding > Is there an example of how to do this properly, how to test that it's > correct, and is there any way to catch it at the byte-compile stage? Example, no, and neither "tests that it's correct", but the Texinfo doc includes a discussion of how to do it (using byte-compiler messages to catch likely problems). Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch 2011-03-30 0:42 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2011-04-08 5:51 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-04-08 5:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:42:20 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: >> Is there an example of how to do this properly, how to test that it's >> correct, and is there any way to catch it at the byte-compile stage? SM> Example, no, and neither "tests that it's correct", but the Texinfo doc SM> includes a discussion of how to do it (using byte-compiler messages to SM> catch likely problems). I looked at (info "(elisp) Lexical Binding") and (info "(elisp) Converting to Lexical Binding") and it was educational, though a few examples would have been nice to explain how it all works, especially what the resulting `closure' cons cell looks like. Would you like me to write something up? (info "(elisp) Extent") incorrectly says that Emacs Lisp does not have closures so it probably should be fixed. I don't know the details well enough to offer a patch. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-14 10:11 Gnus bugfixing is broken David Kastrup 2011-03-14 14:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-14 19:13 ` message-yank-original issue (was: Gnus bugfixing is broken.) Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 10:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 13:31 ` Didier Verna 2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:11:47 +0100 David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote: DK> I've used M-x gnus-bug RET to report a bug to bugs@gnus.org, and while DK> it appears on the local group gnus-bugs (?) on the NNTP server at DK> news.gnus.org along with several other threads, it would appear that DK> those other threads have been injected automatically by other channels DK> (apparently a bug reporting system, since the subject lines contain bug DK> numbers). I think Gnus bugs should be reported directly to the Emacs bug tracker, as `report-emacs-bug' does. It's set up to DTRT in most cases. This would reduce confusion and make life easier for everyone. I would also get rid of the gnus-bugs mailing list/newsgroup and the CC to it from the Emacs bug reports. bugs@gnus.org can just forward to the Emacs bug tracker. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 10:06 ` Gnus bugfixing is broken Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 13:31 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 13:52 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 13:58 ` Michael Albinus 0 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Didier Verna @ 2011-03-15 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: > I think Gnus bugs should be reported directly to the Emacs bug > tracker, as `report-emacs-bug' does. It's set up to DTRT in most > cases. This would reduce confusion and make life easier for everyone. > > I would also get rid of the gnus-bugs mailing list/newsgroup and the > CC to it from the Emacs bug reports. bugs@gnus.org can just forward to > the Emacs bug tracker. Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 13:31 ` Didier Verna @ 2011-03-15 13:52 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 13:58 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:31:00 +0100 Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> wrote: dvl> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote: >> I think Gnus bugs should be reported directly to the Emacs bug >> tracker, as `report-emacs-bug' does. It's set up to DTRT in most >> cases. This would reduce confusion and make life easier for everyone. >> >> I would also get rid of the gnus-bugs mailing list/newsgroup and the >> CC to it from the Emacs bug reports. bugs@gnus.org can just forward to >> the Emacs bug tracker. dvl> Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs dvl> on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. We can ask. But first Lars must agree or it doesn't matter anyhow. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 13:52 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 15:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 15:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > dvl> Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs > dvl> on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. > > We can ask. But first Lars must agree or it doesn't matter anyhow. Getting rid of `M-x gnus-bug' and just instructing people to use `M-x report-emacs-bug' instead would make a lot of sense at this point, I think. However, as Didier points out, Gnus is also distributed outside of Emacs. And I'm not sure whether the Emacs people would appreciate non-Emacs bug reports that much. I have no strong feelings about this. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 15:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 16:09 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:23:08 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: dvl> Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs dvl> on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. >> >> We can ask. But first Lars must agree or it doesn't matter anyhow. LMI> Getting rid of `M-x gnus-bug' and just instructing people to use LMI> `M-x report-emacs-bug' instead would make a lot of sense at this point, LMI> I think. LMI> However, as Didier points out, Gnus is also distributed outside of LMI> Emacs. And I'm not sure whether the Emacs people would appreciate LMI> non-Emacs bug reports that much. LMI> I have no strong feelings about this. Since the Gnus code is inside Emacs *and* we get Emacs bug reports anyhow, I think it makes sense. Do you want me to ask on emacs-devel or will you? It may involve some... heated... discussion. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 16:09 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 17:01 ` Didier Verna 0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > Since the Gnus code is inside Emacs *and* we get Emacs bug reports > anyhow, I think it makes sense. Do you want me to ask on emacs-devel or > will you? It may involve some... heated... discussion. Go ahead. And Cc the XEmacs beta list for fun. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 16:09 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 17:01 ` Didier Verna 0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Didier Verna @ 2011-03-15 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > >> Since the Gnus code is inside Emacs *and* we get Emacs bug reports >> anyhow, I think it makes sense. Do you want me to ask on emacs-devel or >> will you? It may involve some... heated... discussion. > > Go ahead. And Cc the XEmacs beta list for fun. :-) Then add a couple of emacs usenet groups and you're all set :-) -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 13:31 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 13:52 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 13:58 ` Michael Albinus 2011-03-15 14:46 ` Didier Verna 1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2011-03-15 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> writes: > Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs > on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. It is not the "GNU Emacs bug tracker". See <http://debbugs.gnu.org>. Other projects are hosted there as well, like Coreutils and Automake. Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 13:58 ` Michael Albinus @ 2011-03-15 14:46 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 14:57 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:08 ` Michael Albinus 0 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Didier Verna @ 2011-03-15 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: ding Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote: > Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> writes: > >> Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs >> on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. > > It is not the "GNU Emacs bug tracker". See <http://debbugs.gnu.org>. > Other projects are hosted there as well, like Coreutils and Automake. Yes, but I think Ted was suggesting to use the "Emacs" project (which makes sense since Gnus is part of it), not creating a new "Gnus" project. -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 14:46 ` Didier Verna @ 2011-03-15 14:57 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:08 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:46:51 +0100 Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> wrote: dvl> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote: >> Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> writes: >> >>> Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs >>> on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. >> >> It is not the "GNU Emacs bug tracker". See <http://debbugs.gnu.org>. >> Other projects are hosted there as well, like Coreutils and Automake. dvl> Yes, but I think Ted was suggesting to use the "Emacs" project (which dvl> makes sense since Gnus is part of it), not creating a new "Gnus" project. I didn't know we could host Gnus inside the bug tracker as a unique project until Michael mentioned it. That seems to me like a good solution, especially if we can share some bugs between Emacs and Gnus on the same backend (right now quite a few get reported on the Emacs tracker). Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus bugfixing is broken. 2011-03-15 14:46 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 14:57 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 15:08 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2011-03-15 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> writes: > Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote: > >> Didier Verna <didier@xemacs.org> writes: >> >>> Not sure how, from the political side, reporting Gnus bugs from XEmacs >>> on the GNU Emacs bug tracker would be seen though. >> >> It is not the "GNU Emacs bug tracker". See <http://debbugs.gnu.org>. >> Other projects are hosted there as well, like Coreutils and Automake. > > Yes, but I think Ted was suggesting to use the "Emacs" project (which > makes sense since Gnus is part of it), not creating a new "Gnus" project. IIUC, a bug report belongs to a project by adding the project's name to the `package' attribute of that bug. There are already bugs which have set both "emacs" and "gnus"; virtually a project "gnus" does exist already on that server :-) The "gnus" project is just not listed on the front page of debbugs.gnu.org, which would include also mailing addresses and predefined search masks. Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-04-08 5:51 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 44+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-03-14 10:11 Gnus bugfixing is broken David Kastrup 2011-03-14 14:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-14 15:17 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-14 16:12 ` Adam Sjøgren 2011-03-14 17:47 ` Sivaram Neelakantan 2011-03-14 16:22 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-14 19:13 ` message-yank-original issue (was: Gnus bugfixing is broken.) Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-14 19:38 ` message-yank-original issue Antoine Levitt 2011-03-14 19:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-14 21:02 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-14 22:04 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 0:36 ` Michael Welsh Duggan 2011-03-15 15:30 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 15:29 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 15:49 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 9:34 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 9:48 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-15 10:01 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-26 19:34 ` Sven Joachim 2011-03-28 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-28 19:57 ` Sven Joachim 2011-03-28 20:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-28 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-03-29 5:37 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-03-28 20:41 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-03-29 14:55 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-29 15:08 ` David Kastrup 2011-03-29 15:20 ` Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch (was: message-yank-original issue) Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-29 20:16 ` Gnus compatibility with the lexical binding branch Stefan Monnier 2011-03-29 20:53 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-30 0:42 ` Stefan Monnier 2011-04-08 5:51 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 10:06 ` Gnus bugfixing is broken Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 13:31 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 13:52 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 15:56 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 16:09 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2011-03-15 17:01 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 13:58 ` Michael Albinus 2011-03-15 14:46 ` Didier Verna 2011-03-15 14:57 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-03-15 15:08 ` Michael Albinus
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