From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/78257 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: shr - span elements with title attribute, tooltip? Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:02:40 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87fwq4bfe7.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <871v1tc82r.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87ei5rkr6b.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87sju5g5qa.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87oc4tg3xn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwq5g2kh.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739m5g0z3.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87tyekda4e.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1301511827 9470 80.91.229.12 (30 Mar 2011 19:03:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:03:47 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M26565@lists.math.uh.edu Wed Mar 30 21:03:40 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q50g5-00086w-5m for ding-account@gmane.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:03:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q50fY-00049S-R9; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:03:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q50fW-00049A-Ux for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:03:02 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q50fO-0006I2-TT for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:02:55 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q50fO-0000dG-45 for ding@gnus.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:02:54 +0200 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q50fM-0007bY-Ku for ding@gnus.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:02:52 +0200 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:02:52 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:02:52 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 33 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6;d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:TLSr0egw5rLSHPGzl1YmcH1OA28= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:78257 Archived-At: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:39:58 +0200 Richard Riley wrote: RR> Nightmare times. What was "broken" was the reality level of many CSS RR> advocates a couple of years ago who somewhat smugly informed everyone to RR> use CSS rather than tables for "simple" layouts and point blankly RR> refused any help to those trying to use tables for cross browser layout RR> "working solutions". I think 99% of things about HTML, CSS, and web browsers are either ridiculous or broken. The good bits (in SGML's domain) are basically Lisp without `eval'. Specifically regarding layouts, it's sad that the only layout management in HTML (without Javascript) is the equivalent of Java's FlowLayout. Tables are sort of a GridBagLayout, but the idiocy inherent in the inability (in the early days of HTML) to design and implement a sensible layout manager for HTML is simply staggering. Now, of course, it's too late to make HTML anything but a presentation layer for Javascript. And then we have CSS, the out-of-band, braindead solution that can either go inline or separately and which uses selectors and multiple classes to achieve amazing complexity. Where HTML is at least a data language, CSS is a crazy mish-mash of direct instructions, inheritance, browser hacks, and unmodifiable stylesheets you hope will work but usually don't. Ted p.s. Yes, I realize the irony of using SGML tags above.