From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/35760 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Pittman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Quimby Upgrade Date: 12 Apr 2001 14:32:24 +1000 Organization: Not today, thank you, Mother. Message-ID: <87g0fepwkn.fsf@inanna.rimspace.net> References: <20010410162812.7343.qmail@nightshade.la.mastaler.com> <87g0fg56fb.fsf@inanna.rimspace.net> <20010411052354.D46053@kens.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035171449 4773 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 03:37:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:37:29 +0000 (UTC) Keywords: linux,well,openbsd,debian,anyway,daniel,bsd,bind Return-Path: Original-Received: (qmail 16142 invoked by alias); 12 Apr 2001 04:33:30 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 16137 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 04:33:28 -0000 Original-Received: from melancholia.danann.net (203.36.211.210) by gnus.org with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 04:33:28 -0000 Original-Received: from localhost (melancholia.danann.net [203.36.211.210]) by melancholia.danann.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CB32A8DE for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:33:01 +1000 (EST) Original-Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D2AF7820EC; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:32:24 +1000 (EST) Original-To: ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: <20010411052354.D46053@kens.com> ("Robin S. Socha"'s message of "Wed, 11 Apr 2001 05:23:54 -0400") X-Homepage: http://danann.net/ X-spies: AK-47 spy explosion clones SDI NSA White Water Ft. Meade Mena Saddam Hussein [Hello to all my fans in domestic surveillance] DES PLO COSCO Clinton User-Agent: Gnus/5.090001 (Oort Gnus v0.01) XEmacs/21.2 (Urania) Original-Lines: 97 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:35760 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:35760 On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Robin S. Socha wrote: > * Daniel Pittman [010411 01:56]: >> On 10 Apr 2001, Jason R. Mastaler wrote: >> > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: >> > >> >> What this mailing list needs is a good old-fashioned OS flame war, >> > >> > Well how about this then. While Linux makes a cute desktop/notebook >> > OS, it falls miserably short in most of the categories that matter >> > for larger-scale, high-performance applications (filesystem, >> >> Particularly what areas of them? > > Try ext2 against UFS with softupdates. Good luck. Last time I saw benchmarks, they suggested that the differences were not that great. Not that this signifies that much. > >> > network stack, >> Ditto. > > As of 2.4, it's upposed to be an urban legend. But who knows? Hey, I am personally /much/ more annoyed by the BSD "let's byte-swap the content of ICMP errors" bug than one of the Linux ones, but that's because I have suffered from the BSD one. Anyway, the 2.4 stack seems quite capable of saturating networks on any scale, as well as lacking in stupidly annoying bugs. :) >> > NFS, >> Here, I agree completely. > > Who cares? AFS and Coda are available. NFS should be shot, along with > sendmail and BIND. Oh, indeed. I just keep waiting for the SMB/Unix extension that the Samba people talked about a while back... > At least OpenBSD ships with BIND 4. Which has it's bonus points... and it's own suckages. Admittedly, though, it's not /nearly/ as bad as Bind 8 (on 9, given the number of bug reports I have seen so far). Debian ships both, anyway, so I am not that impressed. :) >> > SMP, >> Details on what areas? > > What sort of a flamewar is this, anyway? Who needs stinking SMP? *giggle* I do try, I just don't actually fell /that/ much interested in proving BSD bad, just knowing what it does well. :) > Anyway, OpenBSD does not have it *harrump* Indeed. Difference people, different desires. [...] >> > etc..). Linux is like a zoo without a keeper. >> In a lot of ways, yes. > > In one single way it is not. "Linux" as in "the kernel" is not. Linux > distributions, however, are an entirely different thing. > Unfortunately, I don't know Debian very well, but it looks good. For > my purposes (security, stability, maintainability in this order), > DeadRat and SuSE are inadequate. Heck, yeah. RedHat and friends also have *sucky* upgrade paths, on par with Windows for "oh, look, my system broke!". :/ Debian is good. If you need to go Linux, go Debian. They get upgrading right, at least. Plus their defaults seem about as secure as FreeBSD, from what I can tell. No one in the world is as paranoid as OpenBSD. This tells against anyone else WRT new-install security. [...] >> I am quite happy to learn why I want something else, though. > > If you want to learn things the hard way, grab an OpenBSD CD and see > if you like it Which is really the only way to really know, sadly. One day when I find some of my copious free time(tm), I will get around to doing just that. Daniel -- The only infallible rule we know is, that the man who is always talking about being a gentlemen never is one. -- R. S. Surtees, _Ask Momma_