Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

[Trying to send the message again since it apparently got bounced]

Hello,

Before opening new bugs, I decided to ask here to see if anyone has any
hints on what's happening with me.

1) I usually set-up (gnus-demon-add-handler 'gnus-demon-scan-news 2
nil), to instruct Gnus to automatically fetch new messages from (my
local) IMAP server every 2 minutes.  However, this causes some annoying
effects.  For example, when I compose a message and tell Gnus to send it
(C-c C-c), if during the process of sending the message Gnus starts to
check for new messages on the IMAP server, somehow things get stuck and
the message is not sent.  I often have to cancel the process with C-g,
and hit C-c C-c again.

It is also worth mentioning that if I am opening a large group (e.g.,
more than 2k messages) and Gnus starts to check for new messages, the
same thing happens.  The solution is also the same: C-g, and tell Gnus
to open the group again.

Is this a known bug, and is there a workaround for it?

2) I use more than one account on Gnus, so I have made dovecot put
prefixes on the e-mail groups.  For example, for account "A" I have
"A/Sent", "A/Trash", etc, and the same applies for other accounts.
Depending on the group that I am opening, I tell Gnus to set some
parameters based on the group's prefix.  So if I open a group from
account "A", Gnus will know that when I send an e-mail to that group (or
reply to a message there) it will store my sent message inside "A/Sent".

Well, with that said, the problem is: whenever I change modes when
composing a message, Gnus gets lost and doesn't store the sent message
in the right group (in fact, I still don't know where/if it actually
stores the message).  Rationale: when composing a message that has a
patch attached, I often change to `change-log-mode' in order to write
the patch's ChangeLog, and then change back to `message-mode' in order
to finish writing the message (and send it).

Does anyone see this as well?  Or does anyone have a better workflow to
suggest?

Thanks a lot in advance,

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Tassilo Horn]

Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:

> 1) I usually set-up (gnus-demon-add-handler 'gnus-demon-scan-news 2
> nil), to instruct Gnus to automatically fetch new messages from (my
> local) IMAP server every 2 minutes.  However, this causes some
> annoying effects.  For example, when I compose a message and tell Gnus
> to send it (C-c C-c), if during the process of sending the message
> Gnus starts to check for new messages on the IMAP server, somehow
> things get stuck and the message is not sent.  I often have to cancel
> the process with C-g, and hit C-c C-c again.
>
> It is also worth mentioning that if I am opening a large group (e.g.,
> more than 2k messages) and Gnus starts to check for new messages, the
> same thing happens.  The solution is also the same: C-g, and tell Gnus
> to open the group again.
>
> Is this a known bug, and is there a workaround for it?

Not really a bug but at least a known limitation.  I'd simply use a
slightly longer interval and more importantly an idle time, e.g.,
something like

  (gnus-demon-add-handler 'gnus-demon-scan-news 15 5)

works very good for me.

> 2) I use more than one account on Gnus, so I have made dovecot put
> prefixes on the e-mail groups.  For example, for account "A" I have
> "A/Sent", "A/Trash", etc, and the same applies for other accounts.
> Depending on the group that I am opening, I tell Gnus to set some
> parameters based on the group's prefix.  So if I open a group from
> account "A", Gnus will know that when I send an e-mail to that group (or
> reply to a message there) it will store my sent message inside "A/Sent".
>
> Well, with that said, the problem is: whenever I change modes when
> composing a message, Gnus gets lost and doesn't store the sent message
> in the right group (in fact, I still don't know where/if it actually
> stores the message).  Rationale: when composing a message that has a
> patch attached, I often change to `change-log-mode' in order to write
> the patch's ChangeLog, and then change back to `message-mode' in order
> to finish writing the message (and send it).
>
> Does anyone see this as well?  Or does anyone have a better workflow
> to suggest?

I'd use the gcc-self group parameter.  Then an appropriate Gcc header
will be created already when starting to write the mail, and that header
tells Gnus where to file the sent mail.

,----
| (setq gnus-parameters
|       `((,(rx "nnimap+A:")
| 	   (gcc-self . "nnimap+A:Sent"))
| 	  (,(rx "nnimap+B:")
| 	   (gcc-self . "nnimap+B:INBOX.Sent Items"))))
`----

BTW, except for mailing lists I use gcc-self set to t which puts the
sent message in the group I've started writing it so that I can read my
mail as if they were newsgroups.  That's really convenient.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

On Sunday, October 07 2012, Tassilo Horn wrote:

> Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:
>
>> 1) I usually set-up (gnus-demon-add-handler 'gnus-demon-scan-news 2
>> nil), to instruct Gnus to automatically fetch new messages from (my
>> local) IMAP server every 2 minutes.  However, this causes some
>> annoying effects.  For example, when I compose a message and tell Gnus
>> to send it (C-c C-c), if during the process of sending the message
>> Gnus starts to check for new messages on the IMAP server, somehow
>> things get stuck and the message is not sent.  I often have to cancel
>> the process with C-g, and hit C-c C-c again.
>>
>> It is also worth mentioning that if I am opening a large group (e.g.,
>> more than 2k messages) and Gnus starts to check for new messages, the
>> same thing happens.  The solution is also the same: C-g, and tell Gnus
>> to open the group again.
>>
>> Is this a known bug, and is there a workaround for it?
>
> Not really a bug but at least a known limitation.  I'd simply use a
> slightly longer interval and more importantly an idle time, e.g.,
> something like
>
>   (gnus-demon-add-handler 'gnus-demon-scan-news 15 5)
>
> works very good for me.

Ok, thanks for the suggestion.  In my opinion this is a bug, since it
really does undesirable things (Gnus basically stops loading messages).
I was trying to avoid this increment in time for 'gnus-demon-scan-news,
but so far it is OK to have it.

Anyway, maybe you can clarify one more question of mine, which is
related to this behavior.  When I tell Gnus to open a newsgroup (e.g.,
gmane.emacs.gnus.general), it downloads everything from the news-server!
I'm talking about more than 20 MB of data every time I open the group.
I have already set (gnus-large-newsgroup) to a sensible value (200
messages), but it still downloads everything from the server.  Is there
any good way to make it download only the last 200 messages?  Thank you
in advance for this information.

>> 2) I use more than one account on Gnus, so I have made dovecot put
>> prefixes on the e-mail groups.  For example, for account "A" I have
>> "A/Sent", "A/Trash", etc, and the same applies for other accounts.
>> Depending on the group that I am opening, I tell Gnus to set some
>> parameters based on the group's prefix.  So if I open a group from
>> account "A", Gnus will know that when I send an e-mail to that group (or
>> reply to a message there) it will store my sent message inside "A/Sent".
>>
>> Well, with that said, the problem is: whenever I change modes when
>> composing a message, Gnus gets lost and doesn't store the sent message
>> in the right group (in fact, I still don't know where/if it actually
>> stores the message).  Rationale: when composing a message that has a
>> patch attached, I often change to `change-log-mode' in order to write
>> the patch's ChangeLog, and then change back to `message-mode' in order
>> to finish writing the message (and send it).
>>
>> Does anyone see this as well?  Or does anyone have a better workflow
>> to suggest?
>
> I'd use the gcc-self group parameter.  Then an appropriate Gcc header
> will be created already when starting to write the mail, and that header
> tells Gnus where to file the sent mail.
>
> ,----
> | (setq gnus-parameters
> |       `((,(rx "nnimap+A:")
> | 	   (gcc-self . "nnimap+A:Sent"))
> | 	  (,(rx "nnimap+B:")
> | 	   (gcc-self . "nnimap+B:INBOX.Sent Items"))))
> `----
>
> BTW, except for mailing lists I use gcc-self set to t which puts the
> sent message in the group I've started writing it so that I can read my
> mail as if they were newsgroups.  That's really convenient.

Hm, I didn't know about the `gcc-self' parameter.  What's the difference
between it and `gnus-message-archive-group'?  Because that's what I do
when I enter a group prefixed with "A" (in my example above):

  (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnimap+local:A/Sent")

Shouldn't it work in the same way as the `gcc-self' parameter?

Regards,

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Tassilo Horn]

Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:

> Anyway, maybe you can clarify one more question of mine, which is
> related to this behavior.  When I tell Gnus to open a newsgroup (e.g.,
> gmane.emacs.gnus.general), it downloads everything from the
> news-server!  I'm talking about more than 20 MB of data every time I
> open the group.  I have already set (gnus-large-newsgroup) to a
> sensible value (200 messages), but it still downloads everything from
> the server.  Is there any good way to make it download only the last
> 200 messages?

Did you set `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?  But even if you did, it should
only load all headers only once.  Or did you also set
`gnus-nov-is-evil'?

>> I'd use the gcc-self group parameter.  Then an appropriate Gcc header
>> will be created already when starting to write the mail, and that
>> header tells Gnus where to file the sent mail.
>>
>> ,----
>> | (setq gnus-parameters
>> |       `((,(rx "nnimap+A:")
>> | 	   (gcc-self . "nnimap+A:Sent"))
>> | 	  (,(rx "nnimap+B:")
>> | 	   (gcc-self . "nnimap+B:INBOX.Sent Items"))))
>> `----
>>
>> BTW, except for mailing lists I use gcc-self set to t which puts the
>> sent message in the group I've started writing it so that I can read my
>> mail as if they were newsgroups.  That's really convenient.
>
> Hm, I didn't know about the `gcc-self' parameter.  What's the
> difference between it and `gnus-message-archive-group'?

You can also have (gcc-self . t) to use the current group als gcc
target.

> Because that's what I do when I enter a group prefixed with "A" (in my
> example above):
>
>   (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnimap+local:A/Sent")
>
> Shouldn't it work in the same way as the `gcc-self' parameter?

The `gcc-self' approach inserts a

  Gcc: nnimap+A:some/group

header which determines where to store the mail when sending off.  That
will work also when you change major modes while writing your mail.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

On Sunday, October 14 2012, Tassilo Horn wrote:

> Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:
>
>> Anyway, maybe you can clarify one more question of mine, which is
>> related to this behavior.  When I tell Gnus to open a newsgroup (e.g.,
>> gmane.emacs.gnus.general), it downloads everything from the
>> news-server!  I'm talking about more than 20 MB of data every time I
>> open the group.  I have already set (gnus-large-newsgroup) to a
>> sensible value (200 messages), but it still downloads everything from
>> the server.  Is there any good way to make it download only the last
>> 200 messages?
>
> Did you set `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?  But even if you did, it should
> only load all headers only once.  Or did you also set
> `gnus-nov-is-evil'?

[Finally replying after several weeks later...  Sorry about that.]

Thanks for the reply, Tassilo.  Unfortunately, I am still seeing this
behavior here.  I did set `gnus-fetch-old-headers', and didn't set
`gnus-nov-is-evil'.  However, every time I open the gnus.general
newsgroup, Gnus re-fetches *all* the messages (i.e., more than 20MB).
Is there any other setting that might influence in this?

BTW, I didn't mention, but I created this newsgroup by using the B
keybind (gnus-group-browse-foreign-server), and pointing it to
news.gmane.org.

Thanks,

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Matt Ford]

Hi,

I've got a note in my config file which seems to produce a similar bug

;; If we set the below to t then this seems to make news groups behave
;; badly (every message gets downloaded all the time) but we won't have
;; all articles available
(setq gnus-agent-consider-all-articles nil)
(setq gnus-agent-synchronize-flags t)
(setq gnus-agent-mark-unread-after-downloaded nil)
(setq gnus-agent-enable-expiration 'DISABLE)

Perhaps you have set this also?
-- 
Matt

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

Hi Matt, thanks for the reply.

On Thursday, November 15 2012, Matt Ford wrote:

> I've got a note in my config file which seems to produce a similar bug
>
> ;; If we set the below to t then this seems to make news groups behave
> ;; badly (every message gets downloaded all the time) but we won't have
> ;; all articles available
> (setq gnus-agent-consider-all-articles nil)
> (setq gnus-agent-synchronize-flags t)
> (setq gnus-agent-mark-unread-after-downloaded nil)
> (setq gnus-agent-enable-expiration 'DISABLE)
>
> Perhaps you have set this also?

Hm, no, I don't have any of these settings in my .gnus file.  Actually,
I didn't quite understand if you are suggesting that I should have these
settings, or that I shouldn't :-).  According to your comment, if I set
`gnus-agent-consider-all-articles' to t, it will solve my problem, right?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Matt Ford]

Hi,

It might.  To be clear when setting 'consider-all-articles' to 't', when
using nntp groups it produced unwanted behaviour.  Every time I went to
a newsgroup it downloaded every single article ever posted every time
(regardless if I'd all ready done so).  And some newsgroups are big.

For IMAP groups it will hopefully do what you want...
-- 
Matt

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

On Wednesday, November 21 2012, Matt Ford wrote:

> It might.  To be clear when setting 'consider-all-articles' to 't', when
> using nntp groups it produced unwanted behaviour.  Every time I went to
> a newsgroup it downloaded every single article ever posted every time
> (regardless if I'd all ready done so).  And some newsgroups are big.

Ah, ok, I know what you mean now.  `gnus-agent-consider-all-articles'
is 'nil' for me since the beginning, and I didn't change it.  So I think
this is not the problem...

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion.

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

On Wednesday, November 21 2012, I wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 21 2012, Matt Ford wrote:
>
>> It might.  To be clear when setting 'consider-all-articles' to 't', when
>> using nntp groups it produced unwanted behaviour.  Every time I went to
>> a newsgroup it downloaded every single article ever posted every time
>> (regardless if I'd all ready done so).  And some newsgroups are big.
>
> Ah, ok, I know what you mean now.  `gnus-agent-consider-all-articles'
> is 'nil' for me since the beginning, and I didn't change it.  So I think
> this is not the problem...

Well, after more research on that topic, I found this:

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/11608

In short: the author of the thread was complaining more or less about
the same thing, and his problem was that he was using
`gnus-fetch-old-headers', setting it to `t'.

I do the same thing here in .gnus, and then I started to do some
experiments.  Now, Gnus opens the newsgroup much faster, of course.  It
doesn't have to download everything from news.gmane.org, only some
messages (I set `gnus-fetch-old-headers' to 500 specifically on gmane
groups).

So, my question now is: what do you guys use?  Do you also use
`gnus-fetch-old-headers'?

Thanks a lot,

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:

> On Wednesday, November 21 2012, I wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, November 21 2012, Matt Ford wrote:
>>
>>> It might.  To be clear when setting 'consider-all-articles' to 't', when
>>> using nntp groups it produced unwanted behaviour.  Every time I went to
>>> a newsgroup it downloaded every single article ever posted every time
>>> (regardless if I'd all ready done so).  And some newsgroups are big.
>>
>> Ah, ok, I know what you mean now.  `gnus-agent-consider-all-articles'
>> is 'nil' for me since the beginning, and I didn't change it.  So I think
>> this is not the problem...
>
> Well, after more research on that topic, I found this:
>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/11608
>
> In short: the author of the thread was complaining more or less about
> the same thing, and his problem was that he was using
> `gnus-fetch-old-headers', setting it to `t'.
>
> I do the same thing here in .gnus, and then I started to do some
> experiments.  Now, Gnus opens the newsgroup much faster, of course.  It
> doesn't have to download everything from news.gmane.org, only some
> messages (I set `gnus-fetch-old-headers' to 500 specifically on gmane
> groups).
>
> So, my question now is: what do you guys use?  Do you also use
> `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?

I set it to 'some, and it does just what I want: enters groups quickly,
and shows me complete threads (including old read messages) for any
unread messages.

Eric

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

On Thursday, November 22 2012, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:

>> So, my question now is: what do you guys use?  Do you also use
>> `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?
>
> I set it to 'some, and it does just what I want: enters groups quickly,
> and shows me complete threads (including old read messages) for any
> unread messages.

Thanks, Eric.

I tried this, but unfortunately it had the same effect: it takes forever
to enter the group, because it just re-downloads everything.  I really
have no idea why I'm facing this annoying behavior.

BTW, do you use some local newsgroup server to download and serve all
the messages?

I'm still really confused about what's causing Gnus to re-download
everything when I enter the group.

Thanks,

-- 
Sergio

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Burton Samograd]

Sergio Durigan Junior <sergiodj@riseup.net> writes:

> On Wednesday, November 21 2012, I wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, November 21 2012, Matt Ford wrote:
>>
>>> It might.  To be clear when setting 'consider-all-articles' to 't', when
>>> using nntp groups it produced unwanted behaviour.  Every time I went to
>>> a newsgroup it downloaded every single article ever posted every time
>>> (regardless if I'd all ready done so).  And some newsgroups are big.
>>
>> Ah, ok, I know what you mean now.  `gnus-agent-consider-all-articles'
>> is 'nil' for me since the beginning, and I didn't change it.  So I think
>> this is not the problem...
>
> Well, after more research on that topic, I found this:
>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/11608
>
> In short: the author of the thread was complaining more or less about
> the same thing, and his problem was that he was using
> `gnus-fetch-old-headers', setting it to `t'.
>
> I do the same thing here in .gnus, and then I started to do some
> experiments.  Now, Gnus opens the newsgroup much faster, of course.  It
> doesn't have to download everything from news.gmane.org, only some
> messages (I set `gnus-fetch-old-headers' to 500 specifically on gmane
> groups).
>
> So, my question now is: what do you guys use?  Do you also use
> `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?

I use gnus-fetch-old-headers, but I also use a leafnode as a local nntp
server.  This gives much better response when fetching a the larger
number of articles that fetch old headers requires. It is pretty easy to
setup to fetch articles from a number of remote nttp servers.

--
Burton Samgorad

Re: Possible bugs (gnus-demon and switching modes when composing messages)

[Sergio Durigan Junior]

On Thursday, November 22 2012, Burton Samograd wrote:

> I use gnus-fetch-old-headers, but I also use a leafnode as a local nntp
> server.  This gives much better response when fetching a the larger
> number of articles that fetch old headers requires. It is pretty easy to
> setup to fetch articles from a number of remote nttp servers.

Thanks for the hint, Burton.  I liked the idea, and just setup my own
leafnode server here.  Obviously, much faster than polling gmane :-).

-- 
Sergio