From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/68729 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reiner Steib Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Reducing Gnus dependencies in message.el (was: Sending attachments) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:51:56 +0200 Message-ID: <87hbxdsjgj.fsf_-_@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> References: <87k52rzyn1.fsf@benthic.rattlesnake.com> <873a9fw6dt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87y6r7yp1y.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <877hyp3by2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Reiner Steib NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247694748 21099 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2009 21:52:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:52:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M17154@lists.math.uh.edu Wed Jul 15 23:52:21 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MRCOi-0005Fn-Al for ding-account@gmane.org; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:52:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MRCOY-0003rb-RX; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:52:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MRCOX-0003rL-0b for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:52:09 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MRCOV-0003wz-18 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:52:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.uni-ulm.de ([134.60.1.11]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1MRCP2-0008E0-00 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:52:40 +0200 Original-Received: from bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de (bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de [134.60.10.175]) by mail.uni-ulm.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n6FLpwVp010446; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:51:59 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83FB13908; Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:51:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: /U7=m^"/-Dn61mAl{g9e3>\G5Tp,oEX|V)g2I1hBk\ML;)7A?6cmB-y7y?'NA^J<=oz7syB =(McAwIHgLX!.B?R3X}98d@?>CrT094KLWh]WU4gDpnL/")MS(XoQTv`Oq225uL>+;CpPXo$N5e>N> $tPd-gbB^F{gQS#1ase]XO~D4p4M"3+F-7~u]dy3I?Pb8RO*H-EFeWDUf?Rf,d]pv\Jvh2Cht!A=im yKAS2Z%Ao^;}W/qzMvMm Mail-Followup-To: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:52:32 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-CTc-dcc1-Metrics: poseidon 1030; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:68729 gmane.emacs.devel:112505 Archived-At: On Sat, Jul 04 2009, Richard Stallman wrote: > > I object strenuously to the idea of replacing the very simple Mail > > mode with something complex from Gnus. > > It's a question of necessary complexity. > > I don't think so. Look at all the libraries message.el loads. > > > (require 'hashcash) > (require 'canlock) We can eliminate these by using autoloads. canlock is used for news postings in Gnus by default. Hashcash is an optional feature for mail. > (require 'mailheader) [mailheader.el is not part of Gnus, but part of Emacs.] Required to insert correctly formated (quoting, folding, ...) headers into mail message buffers. ;;; mailheader.el --- mail header parsing, merging, formatting [...] ;;; Commentary: ;; This package provides an abstraction to RFC822-style messages, used in ;; mail, news, and some other systems. The simple syntactic rules for such ;; headers, such as quoting and line folding, are routinely reimplemented ;; in many individual packages. This package removes the need for this ;; redundancy [...] > (require 'gmm-utils) ;;; gmm-utils.el --- Utility functions for Gnus, Message and MML ... is an attempt to reduce Gnus dependencies from Message and MML files. > (require 'nnheader) > > That loads > (require 'mail-utils) [mailutils.el is not part of Gnus, but part of Emacs]. It provides utility functions for mail handling. Both, rmail.el and sendmail.el use it. I see no point in avoiding using it. ;;; mail-utils.el --- utility functions used both by rmail and rnews [...] ;; Utility functions for mail and netnews handling. These handle fine ;; points of header parsing. > (require 'mm-util) ;;; mm-util.el --- Utility functions for Mule and low level things ... needed for MIME. > (require 'gnus-util) I will try to eliminate this dependency. > ;; This is apparently necessary even though things are autoloaded. > ;; Because we dynamically bind mail-abbrev-mode-regexp, we'd better > ;; require mailabbrev here. > (if (featurep 'xemacs) > (require 'mail-abbrevs) > (require 'mailabbrev)) Handling expansions of mail aliases. > (require 'mail-parse) For parsing and encoding headers and body correctly. > (require 'mml) Required for MIME handling (e.g. sending attachments). > (require 'rfc822) [rfc822.el is not part of Gnus, but part of Emacs.] Uses to ensure that address headers are RFC822-compliant. Is also used in rmail.el. > (require 'ecomplete) We can eliminate these by using autoloads. ecomplete is optional. > I don't want to replace the simple sendmail.el with this tremendous > pile of complexity. > > message.el is also 8000 lines long, where sendmail.el is under 2000 > lines. I expect that sending attachments won't require more than 200 > lines. Doing all aspects of MIME mostly correct is not quite simple. Many MUAs (Mail User Agent) have severe bugs WRT this. When reading about non-trivial topics in the relevant newsgroups, most of the time only mutt and Gnus do the right thing. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/