From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/55922 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Cheng Gao Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: [Request for Correction]To Gnus team -- Gnus Info about spam Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:52:30 +0800 Organization: eqiao.com Sender: ding-owner@lists.math.uh.edu Message-ID: <87hdz2wq1t.fsf@news.eqiao.com> References: <877k00qmgp.fsf@news.eqiao.com> <4n65fjm1ff.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1073828404 6730 80.91.224.253 (11 Jan 2004 13:40:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:40:04 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ding-owner+M4462@lists.math.uh.edu Sun Jan 11 14:39:57 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Affoq-0004qo-00 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:39:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 1Affoj-0007PQ-00; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:39:49 -0600 Original-Received: from justine.libertine.org ([66.139.78.221] ident=postfix) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 1Affoe-0007PL-00 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:39:44 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org (quimby.gnus.org [80.91.224.244]) by justine.libertine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9814D3A0048 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:39:43 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from news by quimby.gnus.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Affod-0000aH-00 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:39:43 +0100 Original-To: ding@gnus.org Original-Path: not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnus.ding Original-Lines: 89 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 221.226.20.140 Original-X-Trace: quimby.gnus.org 1073828383 2247 221.226.20.140 (11 Jan 2004 13:39:43 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@quimby.gnus.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:39:43 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:XrgBU8iYoqkdiYvzhyZZITJy/Ns= Precedence: bulk Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:55922 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:55922 >>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov writes: Ted> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, chenggao@cyberhut.org wrote: >> "If you get lots of spam from China, for example, you try to >> filter all mail from Chinese IPs." >> >> Obviously spam is a world-wide disaster, and we Chinese should >> not be treated as only species of morons existed on this earth, >> though I know oftentimes we are treated like this way. You need >> not respect Chinese, but please dont let us feel insulted. >> >> Please correct this biased wording. Suggest you use some forged >> country name (or rather USA :-p). Ted> I wrote that passage, and I think you're overreacting a bit. Ted> First of all, this is obviously an example, and it should be Ted> clear to any reader from "for example" in the sentence. No Ted> judgment on China is implied. Your assumption that by using Ted> China as an example, I am treating the Chinese as "morons" and Ted> with disrespect, is unwarranted and unfounded. I am sorry if my post gets you some red and nervous. I know,to some extent, my post seems like a bit overreacted. my mistake is maybe I should be more polite in wording of my original post. I dont mean to accuse of you or anyone else. Ted> Second, I don't want to invent a country. I happen to think Ted> that Elbonia, to take the example proposed, is just as Ted> insulting to Albanians. Also, I don't want to write a manual Ted> with invented country names, that's slightly insulting to the Ted> intelligent reader IMHO. My opinion is maybe an invented country is better. Reasons follows below. Ted> Third, China is actually a pretty good example, being a big Ted> country, because the very next paragraph makes the point that Ted> blocking a whole country from contacting you is obviously not a Ted> good idea. Yes you are right. Chins is a big country, and sometimes I feel it's too big and too populous. It's too big that till now 99.9999% of China is unknown land to me. Its popularity makes you feel fatique all the time. Ted> Fourth, this is a real-life situation. People that get lots of Ted> spam from China do try to block all Asian IPs. You may not Ted> like it, but I'm not stereotyping Chinese people in any way. Ted> The existence of spammers in a country hardly qualifies its Ted> people as "morons" as you suggest. Again, the next paragraph Ted> makes the point that presuming to block mail from a whole Ted> country is very risky. Yes. Real-life example is good for user to understand something. But to my understanding, if some user starts to use Gnus as his/her everyday tool for news and mail, I dare say it's fairly clear for him/her what the real situation is. Ted> So are you complaining that I'm suggesting that there are Ted> spammers in China? On those grounds, you're definitely Ted> overreacting, because it's true, and does not make all Chinese Ted> "morons." Or maybe you don't like that China specifically is Ted> used as an example? I can use Bulgaria, I guess, but it makes Ted> (3) and (4) above less valid. I dont complain that. I dont mean that. And to me, it's the same unfair to change China to USA or Norway or any country. To tell the truth, I read many manuals and tech-related materials. I dont think it's common practice to use name of a real Country or Person in the way as in Gnus *info* file which we are arguing about. Every use has headache of spam problem. So every Gnus user need read the *info*, and everyone will read the example with China as the victim (or I should say, every user feels themself as the victim of China wrongdoings). I know, and everyone knows that it's JUST an example. But please understand that when more and more users read the *info* and hit the section, this example will be some kind of propaganda. I dont think my worry is exaggeration. I know I can not exert any influence. I just express my opinion and concerns. Ted> Ted -- No God blessing me No Dog barking at me Gonna adopt a Dog Name it God Get blessed and barked at