From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/82463 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jarmo Hurri Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Separating gnus-no-server and startup level Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:53:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87k3u1regh.fsf@syk.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352037806 22393 80.91.229.3 (4 Nov 2012 14:03:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:03:26 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M30729@lists.math.uh.edu Sun Nov 04 15:03:36 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TV0nX-00078t-07 for ding-account@gmane.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:03:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1TV0lz-0004kk-LQ; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:01:59 -0600 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1TUv2q-0004cB-UD for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 01:55:00 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TUv2o-00022Y-Ar for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 01:55:00 -0600 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUv2m-00006H-8s for ding@gnus.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:54:56 +0100 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TUv2u-0003u8-Cd for ding@gnus.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:55:04 +0100 Original-Received: from cs181237063.pp.htv.fi ([82.181.237.63]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:55:04 +0100 Original-Received: from jarmo.hurri by cs181237063.pp.htv.fi with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:55:04 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 81 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cs181237063.pp.htv.fi User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:c8yjiVfIn8+OgYPkJi2CpL/0tV8= X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:82463 Archived-At: Greetings. Because I occasionally need to start gnus without any connection to the network, and because I can not tell which source would be my primary, I have for some time already defined all of my groups by using secondary select methods. As a consequence, I always start gnus by (gnus-no-server). I recently needed to change the levels of my groups so that my imaps are level 1, nntps are level 2 and nnfolders are level 3. Everything else worked just fine, except that I could not get my nnfolders to appear at startup, which caused additional problems when sending messages (gnus was unable to find the nnfolder where the Gcc was supposed to go). So I tried this and that setting, until I tracked the "problem" to this function: ;; -------------------------------------------------------------------- (defun gnus-no-server-1 (&optional arg slave) "Read network news. If ARG is a positive number, Gnus will use that as the startup level. If ARG is nil, Gnus will be started at level 2 \(`gnus-level-default-subscribed' minus one). If ARG is non-nil and not a positive number, Gnus will prompt the user for the name of an NNTP server to use. As opposed to \\[gnus], this command will not connect to the local server." (interactive "P") (let ((val (or arg (1- gnus-level-default-subscribed)))) (gnus val t slave) (make-local-variable 'gnus-group-use-permanent-levels) (setq gnus-group-use-permanent-levels val))) ;; -------------------------------------------------------------------- So gnus-no-server starts gnus at level 2, and that is why I do not see my nnfolders. The binding of no-server and startup level seems to be for historical reasons; it seems that a large number of users are used to reading their mail this way: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/11479 The problem with the only current working "solution" - setting gnus-level-default-subscribed - is that, first, it messes the value of that variable and, second, gnus-group-use-permanent-levels is still set, which affects the visibility of groups. I think that there should be a way to specify that the starting level and starting without a server are independent of each other. [One way out would be to define a function / key that calls gnus-no-server with argument 3. This, however, does not work for me, because I also launch gnus-no-server directly from org-mode (they were kind enough to accept a patch for doing this); this is done by a direct call to gnus-no-server, without any arguments.] I suggest two changes: 1. Since gnus-no-server needs to be started at level 2 for legacy reasons, but there seems to be more than one person who would want it to start with the default level setup, could we not have a boolean variable for this? Something like gnus-no-server-startup-level-default-subscribed-minus-1 (or something more concise) whose default value would be t for legacy reasons. Setting this to nil would mean that gnus-no-server would not enforce a startup level, nor would it set gnus-group-use-permanent-levels. This would imply minor changes in gnus-no-server-1. 2. Future generations might appreciate it if someone would add a little warning text about gnus-no-server in the manual in section "Group Levels", where the display of groups is described otherwise. If you accept these ideas, I can make a patch for them. (I have FSF assigment for Emacs.) All the best. -- Jarmo