From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/77700 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Welsh Duggan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: message-yank-original issue Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:36:32 -0400 Message-ID: <87k4g1nrsf.fsf@maru.md5i.com> References: <871v2ako4c.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87lj0ha52s.fsf@lifelogs.com> <878vwhijc1.fsf@gmail.com> <87pqpt8oxq.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87d3lte7qs.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1300149512 27792 80.91.229.12 (15 Mar 2011 00:38:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:38:32 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M26024@lists.math.uh.edu Tue Mar 15 01:38:28 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PzIHM-0005S8-9a for ding-account@gmane.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2011 01:38:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PzIFg-0007Oz-PF; Mon, 14 Mar 2011 19:36:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PzIFe-0007Oi-TP for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 14 Mar 2011 19:36:42 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PzIFd-0001Lo-It for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 14 Mar 2011 19:36:42 -0500 Original-Received: from md5i.com ([75.151.244.229] helo=maru.md5i.com) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PzIFc-00018f-Ab for ding@gnus.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2011 01:36:40 +0100 Original-Received: from md5i by maru.md5i.com with local (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1PzIFU-00080O-LX for ding@gnus.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:36:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87d3lte7qs.fsf@gmail.com> (Antoine Levitt's message of "Mon, 14 Mar 2011 22:02:03 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110014 (No Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:77700 Archived-At: Antoine Levitt writes: > 14/03/11 20:47, Ted Zlatanov: > >> For non-Gnus code (and message.el recently became a standalone part of >> Emacs, loaded without Gnus) it's better to be prudent and stay away from >> CL functions and macros. > > But what's the rationale behind not loading it as part of the standard > emacs load? Is it a loading time issue? The command > > time emacs -nw -Q --eval "(require 'cl)" --eval "(kill-emacs)" > > does not appear to be noticeably longer than the same one without cl, on > the two machines I've tried. (but maybe they're both too fast to measure > it) My understanding is that the reason is twofold: 1) The cl functions don't have their own namespace. 2) The cl functions don't follow the same conventions as emacs lisp. (Keyword arguments being a good example. These are what I recall RMS's objections to be, and are not mine. (I require cl as the very first non-comment in my .emacs.el.) -- Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com)