From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/67656 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: gnus should accept UTF8 even if UTF-8 is standard Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:06:50 +0900 Message-ID: <87k5c2tan9.fsf@xemacs.org> References: <87wsg2tvcn.fsf@xemacs.org> <20081021062510.GB22593@tomas> <87prlutizh.fsf@xemacs.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1224590623 4628 80.91.229.12 (21 Oct 2008 12:03:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, tomas@tuxteam.de, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, miles@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 21 14:04:41 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KsFwx-0003QL-QR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:03:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53973 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KsFvs-0001u2-IL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:01:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KsFvm-0001t2-Uc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:01:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KsFvl-0001sF-B5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:01:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46530 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KsFvl-0001s7-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:01:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:40107) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KsFva-00006w-3L; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:01:34 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4F8800E; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:01:30 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4D6441A26AE; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:06:50 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 83e35df20028+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:104745 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:67656 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > That implies that the return value would be a string, not the coding > > > system itself. I suggest we return the coding system (or nil), not > > > just the name. > > > > The coding system *is* just a name > > Not in GNU Emacs; see the doc string of `define-coding-system' (in > Emacs 23) or `make-coding-system' (in Emacs 22). If that's true, it's a shame; AFAICS there is no real utility to exposing the coding system object to Lisp, since you never want to muck with one in the middle of en/decoding, and the codecs themselves aren't defined in Lisp anyway (they're defined either in C or CCL). Not to mention that I don't see how you can dispense with `get-coding-system' if you need to actually get a coding system object. But I thought that that is something that got fixed in Emacs 21 or 22. So coding system objects and charset objects are no longer visible to Lisp, but rather are manipulated by functions whose arguments include the name of the object. No? > > > Some time back in this thread I suggested > > > `coding-system-for-charset' (since the argument strings will > > > be charsets). > > > > Actually, if I recall the thread correctly, normally they won't. > > They'll be *MIME* charsets, which correspond to Emacs *coding > > systems*. > > "utf8" is not a MIME charset, AFAIK, and it certainly doesn't > currently correspond to any coding system in Emacs. "utf8" is not a MIME charset (and no form of UTF-8 is an Emacs charset), but "utf-8" is an IANA-registered MIME charset. AIUI, the point of the function is to guess what people who don't know what they're doing are trying to express (and to provide some interactive convenience to people who do know what they're doing).