From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/77253 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: make-progress-reporter suggestions: 'modeline and customizable progress-reporter--pulse-characters Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:15:57 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87lj16cec2.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87ei76yi1x.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lj1ergg5.fsf@gmx.de> <87ipwi3hjm.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwrmr6gf.fsf@gmx.de> <8739nm1u6n.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <878vxdxfzw.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwrj6j18.fsf@gmx.de> <87zkpp43s2.fsf@gmx.de> <87aaho0yi1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ipwb5fcc.fsf@gnus.org> <87fwrf87f3.fsf@gmx.de> <87tyfuh3l3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87hbbuv25k.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87tyfu1d2v.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hbbui41s.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1298517385 20280 80.91.229.12 (24 Feb 2011 03:16:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 03:16:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 24 04:16:21 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PsRgh-0002oI-Ud for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:16:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35630 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PsRgh-0005TY-88 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:16:19 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51524 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PsRgc-0005TQ-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:16:15 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PsRga-00012D-K6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:16:14 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:40693) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PsRga-000125-7j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:16:12 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PsRgY-0002kZ-9f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:16:10 +0100 Original-Received: from c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.186.102.106]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:16:10 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:16:10 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 86 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110014 (No Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:QhIx0uDVmEXGYQIcwlA8ioPzcl4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:136425 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:77253 Archived-At: On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:01:35 -0500 Chong Yidong wrote: CY> Ted Zlatanov writes: DA> If we really must have something like this, let it be limited to a DA> particular buffer (show the buffer if you're interested in DA> following the progress; don't show it when you don't want to see DA> it). Optionally show the buffer in a separate frame - it could be DA> as small as you like (e.g tooltip-like, with no decoration). >> >> That's a LOT of work for a simple effect. What's the benefit of more >> than 1 spinning indicator in a single-threaded editor? At best they are >> distracting. What's an example where it would be useful? CY> We could add a feature to progress reporters, optionally binding the CY> reporter to a specific buffer. For the subset of uses of the progress CY> reporter that concern activities specific to a particular buffer, this CY> would allow the progress reporter to be used to update the mode-line for CY> windows showing that buffer. OK, let's do it that way. Are you happy with the way Michael's patch specifies it with %/? >> ...if only there was an area that doesn't overlap messages or the >> minibuffer... :) Really, looking at Emacs visually, I can't see any >> other area more appropriate than the mode line. Maybe the fringe >> area? But the mode line has a chance to work in text mode too. Only >> the echo area can compete with that but with the other messages there >> it will become visual spaghetti. CY> One problem that our mode-lines are fairly bursting at the seams. In CY> the Message buffer where I'm typing this, it's up 90 columns wide, CY> overflowing the available space on my 85-column Emacs frame. CY> Another problem is that when you have lots of windows, each with its own CY> mode-line, mode-lines become much less appealing locations for global CY> indicators. Ideally, you want to be able to glance at the same spot on CY> the Emacs frame, regardless of which window is active. (Using the CY> mode-line to show the date, battery life, etc. is problematic for the CY> same reason). I see. It's the curse of UI flexibility. Thanks for explaining. Do you want me and Michael to revise the patch to add the multiple buffer and anything else? Or throw out the whole idea? On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:27:12 -0800 "Drew Adams" wrote: >> What's the benefit of more than 1 spinning indicator in a >> single-threaded editor? At best they are distracting. What's an >> example where it would be useful? DA> Uh, I thought this was supposed to be a kind of progress indicator, in DA> particular for an async process. Forgive me for not reading the thread in DA> detail, if that's not the case. It's a general progress and activity indicator (in the first case with numeric arguments, in the second case without them). Please see Michael's patch. DA> But if that is the case, then can't you imagine wanting to know the status of DA> more than one activity in progress? Whether those activities are carried out DA> truly in parallel is beside the point. Surely you can launch more than one DA> process (grep, compile, download,...) and want to know the progress of each. DA> Whether things are done in one thread or 1000 seems irrelevant here. I think it's visually cumbersome. But I see Chong Yidong's point about the modelines and will go with the multiple approach. DA> But we do agree about one thing, at least from the sound of it: "at _best_ they DA> are distracting". Even with N=1, I would add. DA> FWIW - All in all, personally I would find this feature a DA> distraction. I would be one user who would turn it off. YAGNI. >> >> OK, so you're against it. Why spend so much time giving >> suggestions for something you won't use? DA> To prevent your co-opting and cluttering up the mode line, minibuffer, echo DA> area, etc. with a spinning, blinking, shining, sparkling, or flashing fishing DA> lure. Whoa. The proposal and Michael's patch require the user to specify %/ in the modeline format. I'm trying to do something useful (indicate progress in a compact way that doesn't interfere with the echo area's contents), not "co-opt" anything. You're overreacting. Ted