From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/69201 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reiner Steib Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mail mode vs message mode Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:20:58 +0100 Message-ID: <87lji3od0l.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> References: <87639beb4n.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <876399p00j.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87iqd8rh73.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <87r5rvvknw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Reiner Steib NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258572154 5903 80.91.229.12 (18 Nov 2009 19:22:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:22:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: ding-owner+M17606@lists.math.uh.edu Wed Nov 18 20:22:26 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NAq6f-0005Cp-Ai for ding-account@gmane.org; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:22:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NAq5Y-0006s7-0u; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:21:12 -0600 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NAq5W-0006rt-8w for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:21:10 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NAq5U-00055c-9D for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:21:10 -0600 Original-Received: from mail.uni-ulm.de ([134.60.1.11]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1NAq5T-0002Fk-00 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:21:07 +0100 Original-Received: from bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de (bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de [134.60.10.175]) by mail.uni-ulm.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id nAIJL2NZ001830; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:21:02 +0100 (MET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17FC1D132; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:21:01 +0100 (CET) X-Face: mtjf/D:es1T0wHO:&CJ'ZXe"l;3C--rw\z!{`eFwL){|]RpI+4{u25L=5C /0>KuGeTsk<~<&NE-AKV1560e!+RJeyWmSskkrJm?[vUV#66{T_m|Ae<||Ku#Mk5`y&O`n~z2;n8eP J5#2h@2eQgV@E70IY_0WlEx!"&giy{+\%h1LJox$zv@/l%ZmU4^tZA>xQpnkUBVC5.jpg#0'(+2?Rs )NAr:>3<=WxHE$ktbLysDIM5TbmHu*3, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: <87r5rvvknw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:53:55 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-dcc1.aftenposten.no-Metrics: poseidon 1215; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:69201 gmane.emacs.devel:117208 Archived-At: On Wed, Nov 18 2009, Chong Yidong wrote: > Reiner Steib writes: [ derive message-from-style's default from mail-from-style ] >> I don't like this. The current default value of message-from-style >> tries to avoid quoting if possible and therefore is preferable to >> `angles'. BTW, message-mode doesn't handle the value >> `system-default'. > > We should switch the mail-mode default to `angles'. mail-from-style already is `angles' in Emacs 23.1, isn't it? But deriving message-from-style from mail-from-style would change the latter from `default' to `angles' (as I already tried to explain). > Not sure what to do about the `system-default' setting; maybe we > should deprecate it, as I'm not sure it's useful anymore. AFAICS, in message-mode, setting message-from-style to `system-default' leads to a plain "From: foo@bar" header i.e. without the user name (user-full-name). So probably this is not a problem. >> If I understand the correctly, the goal is not to provide full >> compatibility with mail-mode but to have a default mail composition >> mode that handles MIME correctly. So how about simply providing a >> function, say `message-initalize-from-mail-mode' that initializes >> message variables and hooks from the corresponding mail-mode ones? > > One minor problem: Customize would complain about the value being > changed from the default. In general, it's not nice to set the default > value of a variable outside of its defcustom, as that can lead to > confusion. Well, it's not really about setting the default value since it is change made by the user like any other setq change. > We can do it your way if you really object to making the message-mode > options default to the corresponding mail-* options, but I'd like to > know the reasoning first. (If any of the default values for the mail-* > options grate, like mail-from-style, we can change them.) If the message-mode defaults aren't changed by deriving from mail-*, I don't object. I'd certainly object to any change that makes message-mode less "standard" compliant ("standards" like RFCs, GNKSA [1], good common practice, ...). Changing the default `message-yank-prefix' to nil violates GNKSA, item 10 b and c: ,----[ http://www.newsreaders.com/gnksa/cgi/gnksa-form.cgi ] | 10. Provides adequate quotation and attribution facilities | | b. Clearly distinguishes quoted material | c. Prefixes quoted material with `>' (or `> ' for the "first" followup) `---- I didn't check all the other variables you listed. I doubt that adjusting the mail-* default and the message-* defaults is worth the effort: user who dislike the message-* values may ... - stay with mail-mode (by customizing `mail-user-agent' back to `sendmail-user-agent') - use the suggested `message-initalize-from-mail-mode' function. - customize those few options that (s)he really cares about Bye, Reiner. [1] GNKSA (The Good Net-Keeping Seal of Approval) http://www.xs4all.nl/~js/gnksa/ -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/