From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/41652 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: (Chris Beggy ) news@kippona.com Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Mailing lists and news archiving Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:00:01 -0500 Organization: Kippona Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: <87lmfc8qem.fsf@lackawana.kippona.com> References: Reply-To: Chris Beggy NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035177016 7325 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 05:10:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:10:16 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: (qmail 10838 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 21:01:21 -0000 Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu (mail@129.7.128.13) by mastaler.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 21:01:21 -0000 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu ([129.7.128.10] ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 16Mxvl-000711-00; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:00:41 -0600 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:00:32 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16293 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:00:17 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (qmail 10826 invoked by alias); 5 Jan 2002 21:00:19 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 10821 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 21:00:19 -0000 Original-Received: from lackawana.kippona.com (root@207.8.195.148) by gnus.org with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 21:00:19 -0000 Original-Received: from lackawana.kippona.com (nobody@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lackawana.kippona.com (8.12.2.Beta3/8.12.2.Beta3/Kippona) with ESMTP id g05L05df032452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:00:06 -0500 Original-Received: (from nobody@localhost) by lackawana.kippona.com (8.12.2.Beta3/8.12.2.Beta3/Submit/Kippona) id g05L05PZ032451; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:00:05 -0500 X-Reply-To: Chris Beggy Original-Lines: 61 Original-X-Trace: lackawana.kippona.com 1010264401 31838 207.8.195.148 (5 Jan 2002 21:00:01 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@kippona.com X-gpgkeyid: 0x8060510A X-fingerprint: 6012 F8F8 29B3 67E4 0604 BCD2 F882 88AE 8060 510A Cancel-Lock: sha1:yAiSZDQcPu+q1E9SayiXGRQ9ibs= Original-To: ding@gnus.org Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:41652 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:41652 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > ephemeral they are. Some of them are archived here and there, > but the archives go away or move or don't work. Wow, this is a great topic. http://www.mail-archive.com does a good job of this, and we can even read these as gnus groups with nnwarchive! For now, mail-archive.com is a gift from Jeff Briedenbach and VALinux. In the future, who knows? We've already lost deja-news.com, which was archiving usenet in a similar way. Some people lost faith in VALinux's approach to http://sourceforge.net and are cloning it at http://savannah.gnu.org, which is another indication. > News, on the other hand, don't really go away if you don't run > expiry. If more people are interested mirroring, you just start > feeding. Or mirror using other means. > > So I'm wondering whether I should start setting up mail-to-news > gateways for all the mailing lists I'm subscribed to. And, of course, > any other mailing lists that people would want me to store. I do this now for all of the high volume lists I subscribe to, because I *want* expiry after a while, and I want to reduce multiple subscriptions. I only distribute them locally, for now. > Does this seem like an OK idea? As long as you establish them as moderated newsgroups, it should be OK with the list owners. I don't know about the privacy concerns, though. Moderation and privacy are sticking points and differences between mail and news. > The mailing lists I would gateway would be, at least: <-- lists snipped --> > Is this a good idea? A bad idea? And what would the hierarchy be > called? I *already* think this is a great idea for distribution. Do you have the disk space for archiving these, though? In addition, are newsreaders really good at perusing archived groups? Even with gnus, I know only how to select the N oldest articles or M most recent articles, but I can't get range N to M. (I'm just kidding. I'm certain gnus can do this, but what about other newsreaders :-) ) Downloading the *whole* archive isn't a good use of resources. Might it be better to clone mail-archive.com's approach for archiving? Your approach, the approach of especially interested people archiving lists/groups they love, rather than the "archive everything" approach of deja-news can succeed in the long run. I'm happy to peer for feeds, but I need to have an estimate of the rate of archive growth before I commit to /no expiry/ on those groups. Maybe Russ or somebody with deja-news.com experience can shed light on these issues. Chris