Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Eric S Fraga]

Hi,

Using the gnus agent would give you the functionality you want, and
more.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.1 + Ma Gnus v0.10 + evil 1.0-dev
: BBDB version 3.0.50 (2013-11-16 11:30:49 -0600)

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Alexander Baier]

On 2014-04-29 09:12 Eric S Fraga wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Using the gnus agent would give you the functionality you want, and
> more.

This sounds very appealing :)

I took a look at the agent before posting to this group, but somehow got
the feeling it came with too much overhead. But maybe this is not the
case and I just missed some things that would make the agent be a good
fit for my situation.

Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
functionality in.  How would I use the agent to save selected articles,
so they are available in such a group for ever and without an active
connection?

Regards,
-- 
 Alexander Baier

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Eric S Fraga]

On Tuesday, 29 Apr 2014 at 15:05, Alexander Baier wrote:

[...]

> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described

I am not sure if you can directly choose groups to be handled by the
agent; maybe you can but I don't know how if so.  Instead, I have always
selected servers to be managed by the agent and you do this in the
server buffer (^ from the group buffer, "J a" to add a server to the
agent, "J r" to remove).

However, only emails in groups with levels less than or equal to the
minimum of gnus-activate-level and gnus-agent-handle-level are actually
downloaded.

So a combination of server selection and level settings will allow you
to choose which groups to download.

> functionality in.  How would I use the agent to save selected articles,
> so they are available in such a group for ever and without an active
> connection?

My approach is to have all articles (up to a certain size; check out
gnus-agent-max-fetch-size) downloaded.  You do this by "J s" in the
group buffer.  Obviously, the first time you do this, it may take some
time if you have many messages in your groups.

It may be possible to download only selected emails but I do not know
how.  Check the info pages, I guess?

If you start gnus unplugged (M-x gnus-unplugged RET), you can send
emails by C-c C-c as normal which puts them in a queue.  They are
subsequently sent if you "J S", whether plugged or not but hopefully
connected to the network.

I hope this makes sense.  I've been using the gnus agent for several
years now.  I download all my emails before I get on the train both to
and from work and process all my emails on the train (I have a long
commute).  I often don't check my emails during the day other than on
the train!

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.4.50.2 + Ma Gnus v0.10 + evil evil-git-d4ffce0
: BBDB version 3.1.1 (2014-04-12 21:49:18 -0500)

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk>:

> It may be possible to download only selected emails but I do not know
> how.  Check the info pages, I guess?

I almost never explictly download articles for groups, but they do get
cached in the agent when I read them (if the group is on an agentized
server, that is).

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Alexander Baier]

On 2014-04-29 17:02 Eric S Fraga wrote:
> On Tuesday, 29 Apr 2014 at 15:05, Alexander Baier wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
>
> I am not sure if you can directly choose groups to be handled by the
> agent; maybe you can but I don't know how if so.  Instead, I have always
> selected servers to be managed by the agent and you do this in the
> server buffer (^ from the group buffer, "J a" to add a server to the
> agent, "J r" to remove).
>
> However, only emails in groups with levels less than or equal to the
> minimum of gnus-activate-level and gnus-agent-handle-level are actually
> downloaded.
>
> So a combination of server selection and level settings will allow you
> to choose which groups to download.

The manual mentions Group and Topic parameters to be used to choose what
groups are to be agentized.  I only need this functionality for groups
hosted on gmane, so I just added the whole server.

> If you start gnus unplugged (M-x gnus-unplugged RET), you can send
> emails by C-c C-c as normal which puts them in a queue.  They are
> subsequently sent if you "J S", whether plugged or not but hopefully
> connected to the network.

This is a nice side-effect of this whole agent-adventure.

Thank you,
-- 
 Alexander Baier

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2014-04-29 17:02 Eric S Fraga wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 29 Apr 2014 at 15:05, Alexander Baier wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
>>
>> I am not sure if you can directly choose groups to be handled by the
>> agent; maybe you can but I don't know how if so.  Instead, I have always
>> selected servers to be managed by the agent and you do this in the
>> server buffer (^ from the group buffer, "J a" to add a server to the
>> agent, "J r" to remove).
>>
>> However, only emails in groups with levels less than or equal to the
>> minimum of gnus-activate-level and gnus-agent-handle-level are actually
>> downloaded.
>>
>> So a combination of server selection and level settings will allow you
>> to choose which groups to download.
>
> The manual mentions Group and Topic parameters to be used to choose what
> groups are to be agentized.  I only need this functionality for groups
> hosted on gmane, so I just added the whole server.
>
>> If you start gnus unplugged (M-x gnus-unplugged RET), you can send
>> emails by C-c C-c as normal which puts them in a queue.  They are
>> subsequently sent if you "J S", whether plugged or not but hopefully
>> connected to the network.
>
> This is a nice side-effect of this whole agent-adventure.

You can toggle plugged state with "J j": I do this all the time when I
want to send a pile of rapid-fire emails and don't want to wait for
network blocking. Toggle plugged, write a bunch of emails, toggle
plugged again, and go to the bathroom.

Sorry, just jumping into the thread because I really like this feature...

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Alexander Baier]

On 2014-04-30 09:19 Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2014-04-29 17:02 Eric S Fraga wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 29 Apr 2014 at 15:05, Alexander Baier wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
>>>
>>> I am not sure if you can directly choose groups to be handled by the
>>> agent; maybe you can but I don't know how if so.  Instead, I have always
>>> selected servers to be managed by the agent and you do this in the
>>> server buffer (^ from the group buffer, "J a" to add a server to the
>>> agent, "J r" to remove).
>>>
>>> However, only emails in groups with levels less than or equal to the
>>> minimum of gnus-activate-level and gnus-agent-handle-level are actually
>>> downloaded.
>>>
>>> So a combination of server selection and level settings will allow you
>>> to choose which groups to download.
>>
>> The manual mentions Group and Topic parameters to be used to choose what
>> groups are to be agentized.  I only need this functionality for groups
>> hosted on gmane, so I just added the whole server.
>>
>>> If you start gnus unplugged (M-x gnus-unplugged RET), you can send
>>> emails by C-c C-c as normal which puts them in a queue.  They are
>>> subsequently sent if you "J S", whether plugged or not but hopefully
>>> connected to the network.
>>
>> This is a nice side-effect of this whole agent-adventure.
>
> You can toggle plugged state with "J j": I do this all the time when I
> want to send a pile of rapid-fire emails and don't want to wait for
> network blocking. Toggle plugged, write a bunch of emails, toggle
> plugged again, and go to the bathroom.

I might just adapt this workflow.

> Sorry, just jumping into the thread because I really like this feature...

Nothing to apologize for.  In my opinion sharing "user stories" like
these is where you can learn the most about using emacs / gnus. The same
holds for Eric S Fraga's earlier mail talking about using Agent to do
your mail related work on the commute.

Regards,
-- 
Alexander Baier

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2014-04-30 09:19 Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>> Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2014-04-29 17:02 Eric S Fraga wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, 29 Apr 2014 at 15:05, Alexander Baier wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure if you can directly choose groups to be handled by the
>>>> agent; maybe you can but I don't know how if so.  Instead, I have always
>>>> selected servers to be managed by the agent and you do this in the
>>>> server buffer (^ from the group buffer, "J a" to add a server to the
>>>> agent, "J r" to remove).
>>>>
>>>> However, only emails in groups with levels less than or equal to the
>>>> minimum of gnus-activate-level and gnus-agent-handle-level are actually
>>>> downloaded.
>>>>
>>>> So a combination of server selection and level settings will allow you
>>>> to choose which groups to download.
>>>
>>> The manual mentions Group and Topic parameters to be used to choose what
>>> groups are to be agentized.  I only need this functionality for groups
>>> hosted on gmane, so I just added the whole server.
>>>
>>>> If you start gnus unplugged (M-x gnus-unplugged RET), you can send
>>>> emails by C-c C-c as normal which puts them in a queue.  They are
>>>> subsequently sent if you "J S", whether plugged or not but hopefully
>>>> connected to the network.
>>>
>>> This is a nice side-effect of this whole agent-adventure.
>>
>> You can toggle plugged state with "J j": I do this all the time when I
>> want to send a pile of rapid-fire emails and don't want to wait for
>> network blocking. Toggle plugged, write a bunch of emails, toggle
>> plugged again, and go to the bathroom.
>
> I might just adapt this workflow.

The bit I missed was adding `gnus-group-send-queue' to the
'gnus-agent-plugged-hook variable. Then all works as expected (provided
you actually have an internet connection when you re-plug).

>> Sorry, just jumping into the thread because I really like this feature...
>
> Nothing to apologize for.  In my opinion sharing "user stories" like
> these is where you can learn the most about using emacs / gnus. The same
> holds for Eric S Fraga's earlier mail talking about using Agent to do
> your mail related work on the commute.

It's definitely all about the little conveniences...

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Alexander Baier]

On 2014-04-30 10:23 Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>>>> If you start gnus unplugged (M-x gnus-unplugged RET), you can send
>>>>> emails by C-c C-c as normal which puts them in a queue.  They are
>>>>> subsequently sent if you "J S", whether plugged or not but hopefully
>>>>> connected to the network.
>>>>
>>>> This is a nice side-effect of this whole agent-adventure.
>>>
>>> You can toggle plugged state with "J j": I do this all the time when I
>>> want to send a pile of rapid-fire emails and don't want to wait for
>>> network blocking. Toggle plugged, write a bunch of emails, toggle
>>> plugged again, and go to the bathroom.
>>
>> I might just adapt this workflow.
>
> The bit I missed was adding `gnus-group-send-queue' to the
> 'gnus-agent-plugged-hook variable. Then all works as expected (provided
> you actually have an internet connection when you re-plug).

I just did a "J S" manually after re-plugging, but this is even
better! :)

Thanks,
-- 
Alexander Baier

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Eric S Fraga]

On Wednesday, 30 Apr 2014 at 16:23, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

[...]

> The bit I missed was adding `gnus-group-send-queue' to the
> 'gnus-agent-plugged-hook variable. Then all works as expected (provided
> you actually have an internet connection when you re-plug).

Yes, I missed this as well and it is in fact very useful!  I have my
fingers already trained to do "J j J S" mind you... :-)

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.4.50.2 + Ma Gnus v0.10 + evil evil-git-cc1cc7e
: BBDB version 3.1.1 (2014-04-12 21:49:18 -0500)

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com>:

> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
> functionality in.  How would I use the agent to save selected articles,
> so they are available in such a group for ever and without an active
> connection?

You don't agentize the indvidual groups, you agentize the server.

To add gnus agent, press '^' to enter the server buffer, and arrow-down
to the server you want to add agent support for, and then do 'J a' to
add agent support for that server.

However that doesn't necessarily make it download read articles, you
have to mark the articles you want to save and explicitly give commands
to download them.

For caching articles in the agent when I read them, I have this setting
in my ~/.gnus.el, dated Feb 15 09:19:06 2006: 
 ;; Store article in agent when reading it while online
 (add-hook 'gnus-select-article-hook 'gnus-agent-fetch-selected-article)

However, I don't know if it has any effect anymore...:-)

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Alexander Baier]

On 2014-04-29 19:15 Steinar Bang wrote:
>>>>>> Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com>:
>
>> Lets say I "agentize" the groups I want to achieve described
>> functionality in.  How would I use the agent to save selected articles,
>> so they are available in such a group for ever and without an active
>> connection?
>

[...]

> However that doesn't necessarily make it download read articles, you
> have to mark the articles you want to save and explicitly give commands
> to download them.

That is exactly what I want it to do, very nice!  AFAIK downloaded
articles are expired after a certain amount of time, is this right?  If
so, is there a way to disable this to make them stay on my machine
forever?

> For caching articles in the agent when I read them, I have this setting
> in my ~/.gnus.el, dated Feb 15 09:19:06 2006:
>  ;; Store article in agent when reading it while online
>  (add-hook 'gnus-select-article-hook 'gnus-agent-fetch-selected-article)
>
> However, I don't know if it has any effect anymore...:-)
This might be useful to, thanks for sharing!

Regards,
--
 Alexander Baier

Re: Accessing cached articles without an active internet connection

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Alexander Baier <lexi.baier@gmail.com>:

> That is exactly what I want it to do, very nice!  AFAIK downloaded
> articles are expired after a certain amount of time, is this right?
> If so, is there a way to disable this to make them stay on my machine
> forever?

When I first started using the agent, the cached articles weren't
deleted neither when the upstream article was deleted, nor when the
cached article was un-ticked.

One had to run an explicit command to delete unused articles from the
agent cache.

But this was when I first started using the agent, back in 200x (where
x<=2).  I don't know what the current behaviour is.