* Re: Slow Access from Gnus [not found] ` <76d4p5g22s.fsf@dev-d01.ppllc.com> @ 2008-04-04 15:19 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: >>>>>> "SB" == Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes: > SB> Have you tried sniffing the group opening with eg. wireshark to > SB> see if the delay is simply network related? > > When I enter a traditional nntp-based newsgroup (e.g., comp.emacs.help) > I see some quick 'nntp read' messages and then I'm in. Depending on the > number of messages that have been posted since the last time I entered > the newsgroup, I will see more or less 'nntp read' messages. > > But when I entered gmane.discuss just now, with only two messages posted > since I last checked it yesterday, I still saw a huge amount of 'nntp > read' traffic. It's almost as if Gnus is downloading the entire group > and doesn't know how much I've already seen. Set nntp-record-commands to t and check if the commands in the *nntp-log* buffer are significantly different e.g. for gnu.emacs.help and gmane.emacs.help. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 15:19 ` Slow Access from Gnus Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman 2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Jake Colman @ 2008-04-04 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gmane-discuss; +Cc: ding >>>>> "RS" == Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: RS> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: >>>>>>> "SB" == Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes: SB> Have you tried sniffing the group opening with eg. wireshark to SB> see if the delay is simply network related? >> >> When I enter a traditional nntp-based newsgroup (e.g., comp.emacs.help) >> I see some quick 'nntp read' messages and then I'm in. Depending on the >> number of messages that have been posted since the last time I entered >> the newsgroup, I will see more or less 'nntp read' messages. >> >> But when I entered gmane.discuss just now, with only two messages posted >> since I last checked it yesterday, I still saw a huge amount of 'nntp >> read' traffic. It's almost as if Gnus is downloading the entire group >> and doesn't know how much I've already seen. RS> Set nntp-record-commands to t and check if the commands in the RS> *nntp-log* buffer are significantly different e.g. for RS> gnu.emacs.help and gmane.emacs.help. Very, very odd. The commands are identical. For example: 20080404T131502.278 news.gmane.org GROUP gmane.emacs.gnus.general 20080404T131502.400 news.gmane.org XOVER 1-66679 20080404T131611.177 free.teranews.com GROUP comp.emacs 20080404T131611.296 free.teranews.com XOVER 1-69787 Yes, it appears that for every gmane group it actually rereads the entire "active file" (do I know what I'm talkig about?) or something. Even if I do a catch-up in my gmane group it rereads everything. If I enter comp.emacs twice in a row, the second is almost instantaneous. Entering the same gmane group twice will take the same amount of time each time as it does all those kilobytes of nntp reads. -- Jake Colman Director of Software Development Principia Partners LLC 101 West Elm Street Suite 620 Conshohocken, PA 19428 +1 (610) 755-9786 www.principiapartners.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman @ 2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: > 20080404T131502.278 news.gmane.org GROUP gmane.emacs.gnus.general > 20080404T131502.400 news.gmane.org XOVER 1-66679 > 20080404T131611.177 free.teranews.com GROUP comp.emacs > 20080404T131611.296 free.teranews.com XOVER 1-69787 > > Yes, it appears that for every gmane group it actually rereads the > entire "active file" (do I know what I'm talkig about?) or something. Gnus fetches the whole NOV (overview) data if `gnus-fetch-old-headers' is t. Try setting it to some number, say 100. Does it help? Then you should see something like this in the *nntp-log* buffer: [DATE...] news.gmane.org XOVER 66578-66679 (See the function `nntp-retrieve-headers-with-xover') In contrast to "normal" news servers, Gmane doesn't expire articles so the overview might become really large. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman 2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Jake Colman @ 2008-04-04 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gmane-discuss; +Cc: ding >>>>> "RS" == Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: RS> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: >> 20080404T131502.278 news.gmane.org GROUP gmane.emacs.gnus.general >> 20080404T131502.400 news.gmane.org XOVER 1-66679 >> 20080404T131611.177 free.teranews.com GROUP comp.emacs >> 20080404T131611.296 free.teranews.com XOVER 1-69787 >> >> Yes, it appears that for every gmane group it actually rereads the >> entire "active file" (do I know what I'm talkig about?) or something. RS> Gnus fetches the whole NOV (overview) data if RS> `gnus-fetch-old-headers' is t. Try setting it to some number, RS> say 100. Does it help? RS> Then you should see something like this in the *nntp-log* buffer: RS> [DATE...] news.gmane.org XOVER 66578-66679 RS> (See the function `nntp-retrieve-headers-with-xover') RS> In contrast to "normal" news servers, Gmane doesn't expire RS> articles so the overview might become really large. WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical downside to specifying a number instead of 't'? What setting do _you_ use? -- Jake Colman Director of Software Development Principia Partners LLC 101 West Elm Street Suite 620 Conshohocken, PA 19428 +1 (610) 755-9786 www.principiapartners.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman @ 2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim 2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 19:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: > WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for > 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the > group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical downside to > specifying a number instead of 't'? You might not see old posting in the threads... ,----[ (info "(gnus)Filling In Threads") ] | `gnus-fetch-old-headers' | If non-`nil', Gnus will attempt to build old threads by fetching | more old headers--headers to articles marked as read. If you would | like to display as few summary lines as possible, but still | connect as many loose threads as possible, you should set this | variable to `some' or a number. If you set it to a number, no | more than that number of extra old headers will be fetched. In | either case, fetching old headers only works if the back end you | are using carries overview files--this would normally be `nntp', | `nnspool', `nnml', and `nnmaildir'. Also remember that if the | root of the thread has been expired by the server, there's not | much Gnus can do about that. | | This variable can also be set to `invisible'. This won't have any | visible effects, but is useful if you use the `A T' command a lot | (*note Finding the Parent::). `---- > What setting do _you_ use? I've set it to t, but I fetch all newsgroups groups from my local leafnode server, which does expire Gmane groups, so I don't experience the slowness. Maybe we should warn about this setting when using news.gmane.org. Do others see the slow access on Gmane with as well with `gnus-fetch-old-headers' set to t? Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim 2008-05-24 13:09 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Sven Joachim @ 2008-04-04 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding On 2008-04-04 21:54 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: > >> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for >> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the >> group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical downside to >> specifying a number instead of 't'? > > You might not see old posting in the threads... > > ,----[ (info "(gnus)Filling In Threads") ] > | `gnus-fetch-old-headers' > | If non-`nil', Gnus will attempt to build old threads by fetching > | more old headers--headers to articles marked as read. If you would > | like to display as few summary lines as possible, but still > | connect as many loose threads as possible, you should set this > | variable to `some' or a number. If you set it to a number, no > | more than that number of extra old headers will be fetched. In > | either case, fetching old headers only works if the back end you > | are using carries overview files--this would normally be `nntp', > | `nnspool', `nnml', and `nnmaildir'. Also remember that if the > | root of the thread has been expired by the server, there's not > | much Gnus can do about that. > | > | This variable can also be set to `invisible'. This won't have any > | visible effects, but is useful if you use the `A T' command a lot > | (*note Finding the Parent::). > `---- > >> What setting do _you_ use? > > I've set it to t, but I fetch all newsgroups groups from my local > leafnode server, which does expire Gmane groups, so I don't experience > the slowness. Maybe we should warn about this setting when using > news.gmane.org. Seems like a good idea, see below. > Do others see the slow access on Gmane with as well > with `gnus-fetch-old-headers' set to t? I just tried with gmane.linux.debian.devel.bugs.general (HUGE!), where I have two dozen ticked articles. After ~1 minute Emacs still was displaying something like "nntp read: 92167k" (yes, ca. 90 Megabyte!), then I got tired and typed C-g. Fortunately, memory footprint dropped to a reasonable level afterwards. Sven ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim @ 2008-05-24 13:09 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-05-24 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Sven Joachim wrote: > On 2008-04-04 21:54 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: >>> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for >>> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the >>> group virtually instantaneously. [...] >> Maybe we should warn about this setting when using news.gmane.org. > > Seems like a good idea, see below. I added a warning in the documentation. Maybe we could also warn when entering the group. >> Do others see the slow access on Gmane with as well >> with `gnus-fetch-old-headers' set to t? > > I just tried with gmane.linux.debian.devel.bugs.general (HUGE!), where I > have two dozen ticked articles. After ~1 minute Emacs still was > displaying something like "nntp read: 92167k" (yes, ca. 90 Megabyte!), > then I got tired and typed C-g. Fortunately, memory footprint dropped > to a reasonable level afterwards. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim @ 2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman 2008-04-06 20:23 ` Reiner Steib 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Jake Colman @ 2008-04-06 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gmane-discuss; +Cc: ding >>>>> "RS" == Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: RS> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote: >> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for >> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter >> the group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical >> downside to specifying a number instead of 't'? RS> You might not see old posting in the threads... Is there a way to set the gnus-fetch-old-headers variable one way for gmane groups and another way for standard nntp groups. (those which expire their articles)? Maybe some sort of pre- and post-hook? -- Jake Colman Director of Software Development Principia Partners LLC 101 West Elm Street Suite 620 Conshohocken, PA 19428 +1 (610) 755-9786 www.principiapartners.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus 2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman @ 2008-04-06 20:23 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-06 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jake Colman; +Cc: ding [ Stripping gmane.dicuss ] On Sun, Apr 06 2008, Jake Colman wrote: > Is there a way to set the gnus-fetch-old-headers variable one way for > gmane groups and another way for standard nntp groups. Probably like this: (add-to-list 'gnus-parameters '("^gmane\\." (gnus-fetch-old-headers 500))) Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-05-24 13:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <76abkahc6i.fsf@dev-d01.ppllc.com> [not found] ` <87r6dmobkp.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> [not found] ` <76sky2fksc.fsf@dev-d01.ppllc.com> [not found] ` <877ifdhip3.fsf@dod.no> [not found] ` <76d4p5g22s.fsf@dev-d01.ppllc.com> 2008-04-04 15:19 ` Slow Access from Gnus Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman 2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman 2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim 2008-05-24 13:09 ` Reiner Steib 2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman 2008-04-06 20:23 ` Reiner Steib
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