From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/78183 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: shr - span elements with title attribute, tooltip? Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:46:44 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87oc4tg3xn.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <871v1tc82r.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87ei5rkr6b.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87sju5g5qa.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1301424466 9862 80.91.229.12 (29 Mar 2011 18:47:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:47:46 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M26494@lists.math.uh.edu Tue Mar 29 20:47:40 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dx6-0000Cy-Et for ding-account@gmane.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:47:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dwp-000490-DL; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:47:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dwn-00048j-TP for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:47:21 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dwV-00011B-Jz for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:47:16 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dwU-000873-Su for ding@gnus.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:47:02 +0200 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dwU-0008LU-LP for ding@gnus.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:47:02 +0200 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:47:02 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:47:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6;d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:JsOEXOKUTfbhC7Wo/ZKwkyLqqpc= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:78183 Archived-At: On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:23:08 +0200 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: LMI> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> It's not difficult. Just render "[title: content]" instead of "content" >> when the user asks to toggle the title, and give the user a way to do it >> locally or globally for the whole buffer. LMI> It doesn't seem very useful to me. The common use case for "title" is LMI> to add a textual explanation for a non-textual rendering element, which LMI> is why I've implemented it for , and nothing else. It's commonly used for form and a elements and it's required for abbr and acronym. Plus it often makes sense for other HTML elements. So I think it's useful generally, not just for images. But even for images... >> Tool tips are (arguably) one of the worst UI elements you can use >> generally, as they are only intended for controls that don't have space >> for labels (e.g. toolbars). They require fine control, *a mouse*, and >> the user to be patient while hovering above something. There is not >> even a hint that hovering will reveal a tool tip, you just have to hope. LMI> Yes. Which is why people don't put "title" on random textual objects in LMI> HTML, but virtually only on images. :-) ...you can't possibly argue that it makes sense for the user to hover over every image hoping it has a tooltip? That works for XKCD because the users have been trained by now to play that joke, but not generally. As I keep saying, tooltips require a mouse while Emacs runs just fine without a mouse or graphics. So let's just provide a way to toggle titles in the shr buffer, it's a tiny amount of work. I'll do it if you don't feel like it--it will be off by default in any case. Ted