Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Reiner Steib]

Hi,

we need to decide how to continue Gnus development because of the
Emacs 23 feature freeze.

[I'll be on vacations during September, so it would be good if we
could come to a conclusion during the next few days.]

***** Gnus 5.10.* / Emacs 22

Emacs 22.3 is in pretest now and probably will be released soon.
IIUC, there will be no Emacs 22.4 release.  For the Gnus 5.10 series
(= v5-10 branch in Gnus = Gnus 5.11 in Emacs 22.*), I'd suggest to
proceed as follows:

- Continue with v5-10 as before (including sync to/from the Emacs
  22.3 branch) until Emacs 22.3 has been released.

- Thereafter, do a final Gnus 5.10.12 release.

- Retire the v5-10 branch.  (In case an urgent security fix demands for
  a Gnus 5.10.14 release, we could revive it.)

***** Gnus 5.12.* (No Gnus) / Emacs 23

The Gnus trunk is synched to Emacs trunk (and back).  Since 3 weeks,
Emacs development is in feature freeze for Emacs 23.1 (announcement on
emacs-devel: <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/101783>)
I.e. we should not sync any non-bugfixes to Emacs trunk anymore (or at
least they must be approved by the Emacs maintainers, Chong Yidong and
Stefan Monnier).

For the Gnus trunk, we have (at least) two options:

(1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
    now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
    trunk (as we do now).  

    Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.

    New features must be postponed until we start a new development
    cycle.

(2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
    Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.

    Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
    added on the trunk immediately.

Other options?

Bye, Reiner.
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Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Paul R]

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:49:22 +0200, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> said:

Reiner> Hi, we need to decide how to continue Gnus development because
Reiner> of the Emacs 23 feature freeze.

On side notes, is there a place other than the source tree where
I could read the changelog please ?

-- 
  Paul

ChangeLog (was: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest)

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Aug 22 2008, Paul R wrote:

> On side notes, 

Please use a new thread or at least change the subject when changing
the topic.

> is there a place other than the source tree where I could read the
> changelog please ?

You can browse the CVS repositories on gnus.org and on
savannah.gnu.org:

http://quimby.gnus.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/gnus/lisp/ChangeLog

http://quimby.gnus.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~gnus/lisp/ChangeLog?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain

(Note that you need to remove the "/" after "~checkout~"; some bug in
cvsweb?)

http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/*checkout*/emacs/lisp/gnus/ChangeLog?revision=HEAD&root=emacs

Bye, Reiner.
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Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:20:07 +0200 Paul R <paul.r.ml@gmail.com> wrote: 

PR> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:49:22 +0200, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> said:
Reiner> Hi, we need to decide how to continue Gnus development because
Reiner> of the Emacs 23 feature freeze.

PR> On side notes, is there a place other than the source tree where
PR> I could read the changelog please ?

You can look at nntp+news.gnus.org:gnus.commits which has every commit
message.

Ted

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Simon Josefsson]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:20:07 +0200 Paul R <paul.r.ml@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
> PR> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:49:22 +0200, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> said:
> Reiner> Hi, we need to decide how to continue Gnus development because
> Reiner> of the Emacs 23 feature freeze.
>
> PR> On side notes, is there a place other than the source tree where
> PR> I could read the changelog please ?
>
> You can look at nntp+news.gnus.org:gnus.commits which has every commit
> message.

I believe some commits messages are lost though, I get moderator bounces
when I commit every blue moon.  Maybe they end up in a queue somewhere
though, but I'm not sure.

/Simon

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

>>>>> "SJ" == Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> writes:

SJ> I believe some commits messages are lost though, I get moderator
SJ> bounces when I commit every blue moon.  Maybe they end up in a
SJ> queue somewhere though, but I'm not sure.

I approve them.  I do not believe any have been lost.

 - J<

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:49:22 +0200 Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote: 

RS> ***** Gnus 5.10.* / Emacs 22

RS> Emacs 22.3 is in pretest now and probably will be released soon.
RS> IIUC, there will be no Emacs 22.4 release.  For the Gnus 5.10 series
RS> (= v5-10 branch in Gnus = Gnus 5.11 in Emacs 22.*), I'd suggest to
RS> proceed as follows:

RS> - Continue with v5-10 as before (including sync to/from the Emacs
RS>   22.3 branch) until Emacs 22.3 has been released.

RS> - Thereafter, do a final Gnus 5.10.12 release.

RS> - Retire the v5-10 branch.  (In case an urgent security fix demands for
RS>   a Gnus 5.10.14 release, we could revive it.)

Works for me.

RS> ***** Gnus 5.12.* (No Gnus) / Emacs 23

RS> The Gnus trunk is synched to Emacs trunk (and back).  Since 3 weeks,
RS> Emacs development is in feature freeze for Emacs 23.1 (announcement on
RS> emacs-devel: <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/101783>)
RS> I.e. we should not sync any non-bugfixes to Emacs trunk anymore (or at
RS> least they must be approved by the Emacs maintainers, Chong Yidong and
RS> Stefan Monnier).

RS> For the Gnus trunk, we have (at least) two options:

RS> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
RS>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
RS>     trunk (as we do now).  

RS>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.

RS>     New features must be postponed until we start a new development
RS>     cycle.

RS> (2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
RS>     Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.

RS>     Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
RS>     added on the trunk immediately.

I'm OK with either.  Maybe (2) is a little better in terms of structure.

Ted

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[David Engster]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> For the Gnus trunk, we have (at least) two options:
>
> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
>     trunk (as we do now).  
>
>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.
>
>     New features must be postponed until we start a new development
>     cycle.
>
> (2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
>     Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.
>
>     Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
>     added on the trunk immediately.

(1) would mean we'd have to hold back any non-bugfix patches until Emacs
23.1 is released. I don't know what the usual time between Emacs feature
freeze and release is, but I guess it's at least a few months. So I'd
say creating another branch, i.e. option (2), is reasonable.

-David

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Miles Bader]

David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:
> (1) would mean we'd have to hold back any non-bugfix patches until Emacs
> 23.1 is released.

Hmm, when was the last non-bugfix patch to gnus anyway?

-Miles

-- 
Optimist, n. A proponent of the doctrine that black is white.

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Aug 28 2008, Miles Bader wrote:

> David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:
>> (1) would mean we'd have to hold back any non-bugfix patches until Emacs
>> 23.1 is released.
>
> Hmm, when was the last non-bugfix patch to gnus anyway?

Indeed there weren't many during the last months.  IIRC, the last
major new features were nnmairix and nnir.el.  But there are some
(small) additions in the queue (-> Ted) or under discussion (IMAP
improvements by Vitaly Mayatskikh [1]) which should not be forgotten.

Bye, Reiner.

[1] http://thread.gmane.org/m3wsidvv6d.fsf@gravicappa.englab.brq.redhat.com
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Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-08-22 13:49 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:

> For the Gnus trunk, we have (at least) two options:
>
> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
>     trunk (as we do now).  
>
>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.

Shouldn't that be 5.12.0 or just 5.12, according to the scheme you
outlined in <v9tzius72j.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> ?

>     New features must be postponed until we start a new development
>     cycle.
>
> (2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
>     Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.
>
>     Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
>     added on the trunk immediately.

In case of (2), releasing 5.12 from the branch at the same time as Emacs
23.1 (or even earlier) would still be desirable.

Regards,
        Sven

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Aug 22 2008, Sven Joachim wrote:

> On 2008-08-22 13:49 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:
>> For the Gnus trunk, we have (at least) two options:
>>
>> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
>>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
>>     trunk (as we do now).  
>>
>>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.
>
> Shouldn't that be 5.12.0 or just 5.12, according to the scheme you
> outlined in <v9tzius72j.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> ?

Yes, thanks for the hint.

>>     New features must be postponed until we start a new development
>>     cycle.
>>
>> (2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
>>     Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.
>>
>>     Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
>>     added on the trunk immediately.
>
> In case of (2), releasing 5.12 from the branch at the same time as Emacs
> 23.1 (or even earlier) would still be desirable.

I agree.

Bye, Reiner.
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      (o o)
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Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Romain Francoise]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
>     trunk (as we do now).
>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.

If we want to keep our promise that the Gnus version bundled in
Emacs is a (renumbered) stable release, this is the only viable
option.  And I don't think we have any major new features waiting to
be installed which would prevent us from implementing this plan.

Also, creating a separate "renumbered Gnus 5.12 but not quite" line
of development for the bundled Gnus doesn't sound very attractive.
Our numbering scheme is complex enough as it is...

Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Reiner Steib]

On Sun, Aug 24 2008, Romain Francoise wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
>>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
>>     trunk (as we do now).
>>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.
>
> If we want to keep our promise that the Gnus version bundled in
> Emacs is a (renumbered) stable release, this is the only viable
> option.  And I don't think we have any major new features waiting to
> be installed which would prevent us from implementing this plan.

I don't see why option (2) would contradict this promise.  Could you
elaborate, please?

> Also, creating a separate "renumbered Gnus 5.12 but not quite" line
> of development for the bundled Gnus doesn't sound very attractive.

I don't understand your concern.  The separate branch would be a
bug-fix branch (say v5-12) like we had/have v5-10 now.

>> (2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
>>     Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.
>>
>>     Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
>>     added on the trunk immediately.

Bye, Reiner.
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      (o o)
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Gnus 5.10.12 release plan (was: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest)

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Aug 22 2008, Reiner Steib wrote:

> ***** Gnus 5.10.* / Emacs 22
>
> Emacs 22.3 is in pretest now and probably will be released soon.
> IIUC, there will be no Emacs 22.4 release.  For the Gnus 5.10 series
> (= v5-10 branch in Gnus = Gnus 5.11 in Emacs 22.*), I'd suggest to
> proceed as follows:
>
> - Continue with v5-10 as before (including sync to/from the Emacs
>   22.3 branch) until Emacs 22.3 has been released.

Emacs 22.3 has been released on 06 Sep 2008.

> - Thereafter, do a final Gnus 5.10.12 release.

There have been no commits since then on the v5-10 branch, AFAICS, so
I added a tag "emacs_22_3".  I'll double check if the files differ
from Emacs 22.3 and possible sync it.  Then I'll prepare the release.

> - Retire the v5-10 branch.  (In case an urgent security fix demands for
>   a Gnus 5.10.14 release, we could revive it.)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
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Re: Gnus development - Emacs 23 feature freeze, Emacs 22.3 pretest

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Aug 22 2008, Reiner Steib wrote:

> (1) Start the feature freeze for No Gnus (to be release as Gnus 5.12)
>     now.  Do the bug fixing on the trunk.  Sync the trunk with Emacs
>     trunk (as we do now).  
>
>     Release Gnus 5.12.1 at same time as Emacs 23.1.
>
>     New features must be postponed until we start a new development
>     cycle.
>
> (2) Create a separate branch for Emacs 23.  Sync this branch with
>     Emacs trunk.  Only bug fixes should be committed to this branch.
>
>     Use the trunk for the next version of Gnus.  New features can be
>     added on the trunk immediately.

Miles, option (2) probably implies more work for you.  Would it be
okay for you?  (premise: retiring the v5-10 branch)

Bye, Reiner.
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      (o o)
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