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[141.239.244.209]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u21sm8113506pfn.82.2021.02.21.12.41.39 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 21 Feb 2021 12:41:40 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Newell To: ding@gnus.org Subject: Re: Annoying issue with group not showing new messages Organization: Avi Gobbler Publishing References: <20210219120624.GA27346@camandro.org> <87pn0wkyqk.fsf@dick> <20210221173828.GA86830@camandro.org> <87czwtjo80.fsf@dick> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 10:41:38 -1000 In-Reply-To: <87czwtjo80.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Sun, 21 Feb 2021 12:59:59 -0500") Message-ID: <87sg5p8871.fsf@emailmessageidheader.nil> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-ID: Precedence: bulk dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes: > All good, sir, although I often wonder how non-lispers find their way to gnus, > that most ornery of mail user agents ... > Still, even in the 90s, gnus would have to be considered a highly niche > offering with respect to mailx, pine, elm, or even > emacs-based RMAIL. Aloha, I don't argue with any of what you say. Gnus is definitely ornery and requires up-front and ongoing study and indeed often a non-trivial amount of elisp-foo. I remember pine well; yes, it was dead simple. Today mutt is not a lot more complicated for basic use, which probably comprises 90% of use cases. But gnus can do /anything/ if you have the patience and are willing to work at developing the necessary skills. This of course just amplifies your statement about non-lispers (and probably 99.99% of the world) not finding their way to Gnus. So yes, it's a niche product (and in so saying I do /not/ intend to imply even the slightest trace of elitism). It's for explorers and tinkerers who are willing to spend the time required to make Gnus sing and dance and do amazing things. Of course, there is a dark side. I don't believe any real Gnus afficionado can say that they haven't spent time on Gnus that could have been more profitably spent on other things. I know I have, in spades. But the challenge is hard to resist. Hours pass because I /know/ I can get Gnus to do x-y-z. And eventually I succeed. Gnus will do x-y-z. Let's just hope that x-y-z is something that I actually have a need for! -- Bob Newell Honolulu, Hawai`i - Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB