Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

[Luis Henriques]

Hi,

For a while now I've been seeing one specific nnimap group that doesn't
show me new messages arriving.  I need to restart Gnus to see them.  I
sync my (local) maildirs and use dovecot for accessing it from Gnus.  It
all works fine except for this one group.

This is probably very simple to fix, but I simply can't figure it out.
Any ideas for fixing/debugging it?

Cheers,
--
Luis

Re: Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

[dick.r.chiang]

One cannot practically use gnus without stepping through functions.  This is
why mu4e has effectively halted new gnus adoption.

Send yourself a mail to a good inbox.  `C-u C-M-x` on
`nnimap-request-group-scan`.  Then `M-g` on the group, and SPC step to see how
it's supposed to look.

Now do the same for the problematic inbox.  Inspect variables and function
calls with `e variable-or-function-call RET`.

`C-M-x` on `nnimap-request-group-scan` to turn off debugging.

This general strategy holds you in good stead for your entire
emacs lifetime.  Google around for more (onerously longwinded) info.

Re: Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

[Luis Henriques]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 07:50:43AM -0500, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com wrote:
> One cannot practically use gnus without stepping through functions.  This is
> why mu4e has effectively halted new gnus adoption.
> 
> Send yourself a mail to a good inbox.  `C-u C-M-x` on
> `nnimap-request-group-scan`.  Then `M-g` on the group, and SPC step to see how
> it's supposed to look.
> 
> Now do the same for the problematic inbox.  Inspect variables and function
> calls with `e variable-or-function-call RET`.
> 
> `C-M-x` on `nnimap-request-group-scan` to turn off debugging.
> 
> This general strategy holds you in good stead for your entire
> emacs lifetime.  Google around for more (onerously longwinded) info.

Thank you for your suggestion.  Unfortunately, I tried that... and gave
up.  I'm not (e)lisp literate so debugging such complex code isn't
something I'm ready to do.  And no, I'm not moving to mu4e :-)

Cheers,
--
Luis

Re: Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

[dick.r.chiang]

All good, sir, although I often wonder how non-lispers find their way to gnus,
that most ornery of mail user agents, when so many less break-prone and
befuddling systems exist.  One might hypothesize that such users were
"grandfathered-in" from the 90s when far fewer choices existed (and
browser-based services like gmail had yet to invade the public consciousness).

Still, even in the 90s, gnus would have to be considered a highly niche
offering with respect to mailx, pine, elm, or even emacs-based RMAIL.  I only
took to gnus more recently because up until two years ago, I hardly knew any
elisp and imo, a green belt in elisp is required to achieve a usable gnus setup.

Re: Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

[Bob Newell]

dick.r.chiang@gmail.com writes:

> All good, sir, although I often wonder how non-lispers find their way to gnus,
> that most ornery of mail user agents ...

> Still, even in the 90s, gnus would have to be considered a highly niche
> offering with respect to mailx, pine, elm, or even
> emacs-based RMAIL.

Aloha,

I don't argue with any of what you say. Gnus is definitely
ornery and requires up-front and ongoing study and indeed
often a non-trivial amount of elisp-foo. I remember pine well;
yes, it was dead simple. Today mutt is not a lot more
complicated for basic use, which probably comprises 90% of use
cases.

But gnus can do /anything/ if you have the patience and are
willing to work at developing the necessary skills. This of
course just amplifies your statement about non-lispers (and
probably 99.99% of the world) not finding their way to Gnus.

So yes, it's a niche product (and in so saying I do /not/
intend to imply even the slightest trace of elitism). It's for
explorers and tinkerers who are willing to spend the time
required to make Gnus sing and dance and do amazing things.

Of course, there is a dark side. I don't believe any real Gnus
afficionado can say that they haven't spent time on Gnus that
could have been more profitably spent on other things. I know
I have, in spades. But the challenge is hard to resist. Hours
pass because I /know/ I can get Gnus to do x-y-z. And
eventually I succeed. Gnus will do x-y-z. Let's just hope that
x-y-z is something that I actually have a need for!

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB

Re: Annoying issue with group not showing new messages

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Luis Henriques <henrix@camandro.org> writes:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 07:50:43AM -0500, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com wrote:
>> One cannot practically use gnus without stepping through functions.  This is
>> why mu4e has effectively halted new gnus adoption.
>> 
>> Send yourself a mail to a good inbox.  `C-u C-M-x` on
>> `nnimap-request-group-scan`.  Then `M-g` on the group, and SPC step to see how
>> it's supposed to look.
>> 
>> Now do the same for the problematic inbox.  Inspect variables and function
>> calls with `e variable-or-function-call RET`.
>> 
>> `C-M-x` on `nnimap-request-group-scan` to turn off debugging.
>> 
>> This general strategy holds you in good stead for your entire
>> emacs lifetime.  Google around for more (onerously longwinded) info.
>
> Thank you for your suggestion.  Unfortunately, I tried that... and gave
> up.  I'm not (e)lisp literate so debugging such complex code isn't
> something I'm ready to do.  And no, I'm not moving to mu4e :-)

Something that works sometimes with nnimap is to edit the full group
parameters ("G E"), and just blast all the mark information, maybe the
active cons as well. That would be the third and fourth elements of the
list -- I think you can just replace them with nil, though it's been a
while since I had to do this. That should trigger a full initial sync of
the group, which usually flushes out the kinds of problems you're
seeing.

No promises! But it's worth trying.

Eric