From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/78166 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: shr - span elements with title attribute, tooltip? Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:07:57 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87sju5g5qa.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <871v1tc82r.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87ei5rkr6b.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1301422133 27411 80.91.229.12 (29 Mar 2011 18:08:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:08:53 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M26477@lists.math.uh.edu Tue Mar 29 20:08:48 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dLT-0005gR-Jv for ding-account@gmane.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dL4-0003Qq-NQ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:08:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dL3-0003Qb-Ak for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:08:21 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dKu-0001di-8L for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:08:16 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dKt-0006ih-HB for ding@gnus.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:11 +0200 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4dKt-0005Si-Cu for ding@gnus.org; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:11 +0200 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:10 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:10 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6;d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:qPURjPiQUwy8iGYBp0hjN+wIQ4M= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:78166 Archived-At: On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:52:17 +0200 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: LMI> Ted Zlatanov writes: AS> With shr, does span elements with title attributes get a tooltip (the AS> small pop-up text that appears if you hold the mouse over the element AS> for a while) with the text of the attribute? >> AS> Shouldn't they? LMI> The patch looks good, but all elements can have titles, can't they? So LMI> if shr is going to support titles, it should probably be done in the LMI> general tag handling thing. (And, of course, handling needs LMI> special-casing.) I hope you can look at that. I don't know shr.el well at all. >> What if two such titled span elements are nested? LMI> shr aims to be fast, not a complete HTML renderer. So if that's LMI> difficult, it's not essential. It's not difficult. Just render "[title: content]" instead of "content" when the user asks to toggle the title, and give the user a way to do it locally or globally for the whole buffer. >> Also the mouse is required for tooltips and that's annoying when there's >> no mouse. Maybe it can be an `shr-show-titles' toggling command on an >> article, like `t' toggles the headers? I think we already have >> something like that for toggling images in the shr renderer, right? LMI> Hm... isn't there a general Emacs tool tip thing that can show the tool LMI> tip without using the mouse? I have no idea, but there probably should LMI> be if there isn't. :-) I don't think so. And here's my argument against going down that road... Tool tips are (arguably) one of the worst UI elements you can use generally, as they are only intended for controls that don't have space for labels (e.g. toolbars). They require fine control, *a mouse*, and the user to be patient while hovering above something. There is not even a hint that hovering will reveal a tool tip, you just have to hope. See Raskin's "The Humane Interface" and Cooper's "About Face" for more on this topic; Raskin is particularly consistent on the universal use of text. So I hope we use tool tips sparingly and only in addition to a simple, inline way of showing titles. Ted