* Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?)
[not found] ` <83vdlqp0rt.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2009-07-19 11:41 ` Reiner Steib
2009-07-19 12:32 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Sven Joachim
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2009-07-19 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel
On Sat, Jul 18 2009, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> I had a few spare moments, so I compared mail-mode and message-mode.
> The differences I found are below.
>
> Disclaimers:
>
> Please note that I don't necessarily think all of them should be
> changed to match mail-mode, in order for message-mode to be
> compatible. But I do think they all need to be _considered_.
Thanks for your analysis. No matter in which direction a change will
go, this list will be a good basis for NEWS entries (either for
mail-mode or message-mode users).
> I also don't pretend to have found all the important differences,
> nor that all my conclusions below are correct.
> Finally, what's below is based on inspection of the *Help* buffer
> and defcustoms; I didn't actually try using message-mode, and
> don't know anything about it, except what I saw just now.
>
> Here's what I found:
[ key bindings ]
Obviously the key bindings cannot be resolved without a change for
either mail-mode or message-mode users. Maybe set the bindings
depending on some compatibility variable?
> . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f
> moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC.
>
> . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-a moves to Mail-Reply-To; in message-mode
> C-c C-f C-a runs the command
> `message-generate-unsubscribed-mail-followup-to' and there doesn't
> seem to be a command to move to Mail-Reply-To.
>
> . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-l moves to Mail-Followup-To; in message-mode
> C-c C-f C-m moves to Mail-Followup-To and C-c C-f C-l is undefined
>
> . In mail-mode C-c C-t moves to message text; in message-mode this is
> on C-c C-b, while C-c C-t runs `message-insert-to'.
>
> . In mail-mode C-c C-v runs `mail-sent-via'; in message-mode it runs
> `message-delete-not-region'.
What is "Sent-Via" about? Neither Google nor grepping through the
RFCs gave me any useful result. [1]
> . mail-mode runs `text-mode-hook' and `mail-mode-hook'; message-mode
> says it runs `message-mode-hook' "in addition to any hooks its
> parent mode `text-mode' might have run" -- it isn't clear to me if
> these two are compatible wrt what text-mode does.
This text is from `derived-mode-make-docstring'. message-mode is
derived from text-mode.
> . message-mode overrides the following global key bindings:
>
> - C-a runs `message-beginning-of-line'
This is somewhat similar to C-a in the minibuffer. If you want to
move beyond the mail header (e.g. "Subject: "), just press C-a again.
> - TAB runs `message-tab'
`message-tab' expand partially typed headers,
cf. `message-completion-alist'.
> - M-; runs `comment-region'
AFAICS, in mail-mode, `M-;' runs `comment-dwim', which first asks for
a comment syntax since none is defined.
> . message-mode's default value of `message-generate-new-buffers'
> seems to generate buffer names in a way that is different from what
> mail-mode does.
AFAICS, if I do `M-x message-mail RET', I get also get a "*mail*"
buffer.
> . message-mode's default value of `message-fill-column' overrides the
> global value of `fill-column'.
I used the recommendation from the relevant RFCs or GNKSA docs, IIRC.
Unlike `fill-column' which affects the user (and his co-workers, ...),
the fill column in mails (and news) should try to make sense for the
recipients.
> . mail-mode uses `mail-setup-hook'; message-mode uses
> `message-setup-hook'.
On Sat, Jul 18 2009, Miles Bader wrote:
| One issue, of course is hook names; would it work to simply have
| message-mode use the mail-mode hooks directly, and use variable-aliasing
| to accommodate people that use the message-foo-hook names?
Miles, is `defvaralias' what you have in mind?
@@ -905,12 +923,13 @@
(defcustom message-setup-hook nil
"Normal hook, run each time a new outgoing message is initialized.
The function `message-setup' runs this hook."
[...]
+(defvaralias 'mail-setup-hook 'message-setup-hook)
[...]
> . mail-mode uses `mail-yank-hooks'; message-mode doesn't appear to
> have such a facility.
,----
| ;; FIXME make it really obsolete.
| (defvar mail-yank-hooks nil
| "Obsolete hook for modifying a citation just inserted in the mail buffer.
| Each hook function can find the citation between (point) and (mark t).
| And each hook function should leave point and mark around the citation
| text as modified.
|
| This is a normal hook, misnamed for historical reasons.
| It is semi-obsolete and mail agents should no longer use it.")
`----
Should we care about it if is obsolete?
> . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format'
> seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail
> produces.
AFAICS, `r' doesn't cite at all and produce not citation line (neither
does `C-c C-y' (`mail-yank-original').
> . message-mode's default values of `message-yank-cited-prefix' and
> `message-yank-empty-prefix' are different from the results produced
> by the default value of `mail-yank-prefix', and the names of the
> options are also different.
You mean the indentation? I think message mode's default are much
better.
> . message-mode's default value of `message-signature' is different
> from mail-mode's `mail-signature',
I think using ~/.signature by default is reasonable.
> and the names of the options are different.
See above -> Alias?
> . mail-mode uses `mail-signature-file'; message-mode uses
> `message-signature-file'.
See above -> Alias?
> . mail-mode uses `mail-default-directory' for auto-saving mail
> buffers; message-mode uses `message-auto-save-directory',
See above -> Alias?
> and the default values are also different.
message-mode tries to write all it's files under ~/Mail . Many users
like to sync their mail stuff between different computers.
message-mode's default makes this easier.
> . mail-mode uses `mail-mode-syntax-table'; message-mode uses
> `message-mode-syntax-table. The default values are also
> different.
I don't know why message mode additionally contains `>' and `<'.
message-mode also copies `text-mode-syntax-table'.
> . mail-mode uses `mail-send-hook'; message-mode uses
> `message-send-mail-hook' and `message-send-hook'.
See above -> Alias?
> . mail-mode's `mail-bury' tries to show the Rmail buffer if
> `mail-bury-selects-summary' is non-nil. message-mode's
> `message-bury' doesn't seem to have a comparable feature. (This is
> important when reading mail on a text terminal.)
Probably we should call code like `mail-bury' to `message-bury' if
`rmail-summary-buffer' is non-nil.
> . message-mode doesn't seem to have an equivalent of `mail-use-dsn'.
We could add the `mail-use-dsn' code to `message-send-mail-with-sendmail'.
Bye, Reiner.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B"Sent-Via"+mail+header+rfc
$ dpkg -l 'doc-rfc-*'
[...]
ii doc-rfc-0001-0999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
ii doc-rfc-1000-1999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
ii doc-rfc-2000-2999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
ii doc-rfc-3000-3999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
ii doc-rfc-experimental 20030621-1 Experimental RFCs
ii doc-rfc-fyi-bcp 20030621-1 FYI and BCP RFCs
ii doc-rfc-misc 20030621-1 Miscellaneous RFCs
ii doc-rfc-old-std 20030621-1 Old Standard RFCs
ii doc-rfc-std 20030621-1 Standard RFCs
ii doc-rfc-std-proposed 20030621-1 Proposed Standard RFCs
/usr/share/doc/RFC$ zgrep -ie Sent-Via */*.txt.gz
/usr/share/doc/RFC$
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Differences between mail-mode and message-mode - sending mail (was: message-mode is now default?)
[not found] ` <E1MSU0K-0005kX-PZ@fencepost.gnu.org>
@ 2009-07-19 11:56 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2009-07-19 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ams; +Cc: emacs-devel, ding
On Sun, Jul 19 2009, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> message-mode should atleast follow the standard conventions for
> hooking in different methods for sending mail, it doesn't.
Please describe what these "standard conventions" are and what doesn't
work (for you).
> That way, it will work for those who prefer mail-mode, and those who
> prefer message-mode. Otherwise, it will break things as I reported
> before.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode
2009-07-19 11:41 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Reiner Steib
@ 2009-07-19 12:32 ` Sven Joachim
2009-07-19 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-22 7:35 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Stephen J. Turnbull
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Sven Joachim @ 2009-07-19 12:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ding
On 2009-07-19 13:41 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 18 2009, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> . In mail-mode C-c C-v runs `mail-sent-via'; in message-mode it runs
>> `message-delete-not-region'.
>
> What is "Sent-Via" about? Neither Google nor grepping through the
> RFCs gave me any useful result. [1]
See also bug #1776¹ about that header. Probably only the long-term users
of mail-mode know the answer, if anyone.
Sven
¹ http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1776
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode
2009-07-19 11:41 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Reiner Steib
2009-07-19 12:32 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Sven Joachim
@ 2009-07-19 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-19 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-22 7:35 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Stephen J. Turnbull
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-07-19 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reiner Steib; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel
> From: Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:41:32 +0200
>
> > . mail-mode runs `text-mode-hook' and `mail-mode-hook'; message-mode
> > says it runs `message-mode-hook' "in addition to any hooks its
> > parent mode `text-mode' might have run" -- it isn't clear to me if
> > these two are compatible wrt what text-mode does.
>
> This text is from `derived-mode-make-docstring'. message-mode is
> derived from text-mode.
So is mail-mode, but the blurb is somehow still different, I don't
know why.
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-yank-hooks'; message-mode doesn't appear to
> > have such a facility.
>
> ,----
> | ;; FIXME make it really obsolete.
> | (defvar mail-yank-hooks nil
> | "Obsolete hook for modifying a citation just inserted in the mail buffer.
> | Each hook function can find the citation between (point) and (mark t).
> | And each hook function should leave point and mark around the citation
> | text as modified.
> |
> | This is a normal hook, misnamed for historical reasons.
> | It is semi-obsolete and mail agents should no longer use it.")
> `----
>
> Should we care about it if is obsolete?
It depends whether people are using it or not, IMO. And we usually
declare a feature obsolete formally, and keep it that way for some
time, before removing it.
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format'
> > seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail
> > produces.
>
> AFAICS, `r' doesn't cite at all and produce not citation line (neither
> does `C-c C-y' (`mail-yank-original').
I mean the "John Doe writes" stuff vs the "From: ..." etc. produced by
Rmail's `r'.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode
2009-07-19 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2009-07-19 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-07-19 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reiner.Steib, ding, emacs-devel
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:51:44 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> > > . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format'
> > > seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail
> > > produces.
> >
> > AFAICS, `r' doesn't cite at all and produce not citation line (neither
> > does `C-c C-y' (`mail-yank-original').
>
> I mean the "John Doe writes" stuff vs the "From: ..." etc. produced by
> Rmail's `r'.
Sorry, you are right, of course: It's C-c C-y that produces "From:...".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: message-mode is now default?
[not found] ` <87eisb715o.fsf@stupidchicken.com>
@ 2009-07-20 20:42 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2009-07-20 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel
On Mon, Jul 20 2009, Chong Yidong wrote:
> Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> In the most important senses -- the general UI and method of operation
>> -- message-mode is very much compatible... There are clearly things
>> that need to be ironed out, so we should iron them out.
>>
>> The hook situation seems one of the more important issues; is anybody
>> going to comment on my suggestion for merging the hooks?
>
> How troublesome would it be to make message-mode derived from mail-mode?
> This would solve the hooks problem in a clean way.
Wouldn't this imply that message-mode depends on mail-mode so we would
keep the (partial) code duplication?
> It might also bring other minor conveniences, such as letting us
> merge their syntax tables and/or font-lock keywords.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?)
2009-07-19 11:41 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Reiner Steib
2009-07-19 12:32 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Sven Joachim
2009-07-19 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2009-07-22 7:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-22 18:46 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Reiner Steib
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2009-07-22 7:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reiner Steib; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ding, emacs-devel
Reiner Steib writes:
> Obviously the key bindings cannot be resolved without a change for
> either mail-mode or message-mode users. Maybe set the bindings
> depending on some compatibility variable?
How about the presence of Newsgroups?
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f
> > moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC.
Followup-To is rarely useful in a mail message.
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-a moves to Mail-Reply-To; in message-mode
> > C-c C-f C-a runs the command
> > `message-generate-unsubscribed-mail-followup-to' and there doesn't
> > seem to be a command to move to Mail-Reply-To.
There is no Mail-Reply-To header in the mail standards AFAIK.
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-l moves to Mail-Followup-To; in message-mode
> > C-c C-f C-m moves to Mail-Followup-To and C-c C-f C-l is undefined
There is no Mail-Followup-To header in the mail standards AFAIK,
although there is a plausible argument that it is useful for mailing
lists.
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-t moves to message text; in message-mode this is
> > on C-c C-b, while C-c C-t runs `message-insert-to'.
> >
> > . In mail-mode C-c C-v runs `mail-sent-via'; in message-mode it runs
> > `message-delete-not-region'.
>
> What is "Sent-Via" about? Neither Google nor grepping through the
> RFCs gave me any useful result. [1]
>
> > . mail-mode runs `text-mode-hook' and `mail-mode-hook'; message-mode
> > says it runs `message-mode-hook' "in addition to any hooks its
> > parent mode `text-mode' might have run" -- it isn't clear to me if
> > these two are compatible wrt what text-mode does.
>
> This text is from `derived-mode-make-docstring'. message-mode is
> derived from text-mode.
>
> > . message-mode overrides the following global key bindings:
> >
> > - C-a runs `message-beginning-of-line'
>
> This is somewhat similar to C-a in the minibuffer. If you want to
> move beyond the mail header (e.g. "Subject: "), just press C-a again.
>
> > - TAB runs `message-tab'
>
> `message-tab' expand partially typed headers,
> cf. `message-completion-alist'.
>
> > - M-; runs `comment-region'
>
> AFAICS, in mail-mode, `M-;' runs `comment-dwim', which first asks for
> a comment syntax since none is defined.
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-generate-new-buffers'
> > seems to generate buffer names in a way that is different from what
> > mail-mode does.
>
> AFAICS, if I do `M-x message-mail RET', I get also get a "*mail*"
> buffer.
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-fill-column' overrides the
> > global value of `fill-column'.
>
> I used the recommendation from the relevant RFCs or GNKSA docs, IIRC.
> Unlike `fill-column' which affects the user (and his co-workers, ...),
> the fill column in mails (and news) should try to make sense for the
> recipients.
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-setup-hook'; message-mode uses
> > `message-setup-hook'.
>
> On Sat, Jul 18 2009, Miles Bader wrote:
> | One issue, of course is hook names; would it work to simply have
> | message-mode use the mail-mode hooks directly, and use variable-aliasing
> | to accommodate people that use the message-foo-hook names?
>
> Miles, is `defvaralias' what you have in mind?
>
> @@ -905,12 +923,13 @@
> (defcustom message-setup-hook nil
> "Normal hook, run each time a new outgoing message is initialized.
> The function `message-setup' runs this hook."
> [...]
> +(defvaralias 'mail-setup-hook 'message-setup-hook)
> [...]
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-yank-hooks'; message-mode doesn't appear to
> > have such a facility.
>
> ,----
> | ;; FIXME make it really obsolete.
> | (defvar mail-yank-hooks nil
> | "Obsolete hook for modifying a citation just inserted in the mail buffer.
> | Each hook function can find the citation between (point) and (mark t).
> | And each hook function should leave point and mark around the citation
> | text as modified.
> |
> | This is a normal hook, misnamed for historical reasons.
> | It is semi-obsolete and mail agents should no longer use it.")
> `----
>
> Should we care about it if is obsolete?
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format'
> > seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail
> > produces.
>
> AFAICS, `r' doesn't cite at all and produce not citation line (neither
> does `C-c C-y' (`mail-yank-original').
>
> > . message-mode's default values of `message-yank-cited-prefix' and
> > `message-yank-empty-prefix' are different from the results produced
> > by the default value of `mail-yank-prefix', and the names of the
> > options are also different.
>
> You mean the indentation? I think message mode's default are much
> better.
>
> > . message-mode's default value of `message-signature' is different
> > from mail-mode's `mail-signature',
>
> I think using ~/.signature by default is reasonable.
>
> > and the names of the options are different.
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-signature-file'; message-mode uses
> > `message-signature-file'.
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-default-directory' for auto-saving mail
> > buffers; message-mode uses `message-auto-save-directory',
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > and the default values are also different.
>
> message-mode tries to write all it's files under ~/Mail . Many users
> like to sync their mail stuff between different computers.
> message-mode's default makes this easier.
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-mode-syntax-table'; message-mode uses
> > `message-mode-syntax-table. The default values are also
> > different.
>
> I don't know why message mode additionally contains `>' and `<'.
> message-mode also copies `text-mode-syntax-table'.
>
> > . mail-mode uses `mail-send-hook'; message-mode uses
> > `message-send-mail-hook' and `message-send-hook'.
>
> See above -> Alias?
>
> > . mail-mode's `mail-bury' tries to show the Rmail buffer if
> > `mail-bury-selects-summary' is non-nil. message-mode's
> > `message-bury' doesn't seem to have a comparable feature. (This is
> > important when reading mail on a text terminal.)
>
> Probably we should call code like `mail-bury' to `message-bury' if
> `rmail-summary-buffer' is non-nil.
>
> > . message-mode doesn't seem to have an equivalent of `mail-use-dsn'.
>
> We could add the `mail-use-dsn' code to `message-send-mail-with-sendmail'.
>
> Bye, Reiner.
>
> [1] http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B"Sent-Via"+mail+header+rfc
>
> $ dpkg -l 'doc-rfc-*'
> [...]
> ii doc-rfc-0001-0999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-1000-1999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-2000-2999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-3000-3999 20030621-1 Other RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-experimental 20030621-1 Experimental RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-fyi-bcp 20030621-1 FYI and BCP RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-misc 20030621-1 Miscellaneous RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-old-std 20030621-1 Old Standard RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-std 20030621-1 Standard RFCs
> ii doc-rfc-std-proposed 20030621-1 Proposed Standard RFCs
>
> /usr/share/doc/RFC$ zgrep -ie Sent-Via */*.txt.gz
> /usr/share/doc/RFC$
> --
> ,,,
> (o o)
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode
2009-07-22 7:35 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Stephen J. Turnbull
@ 2009-07-22 18:46 ` Reiner Steib
2009-07-23 3:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2009-07-22 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen J. Turnbull; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ding, emacs-devel
On Wed, Jul 22 2009, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Reiner Steib writes:
>
> > Obviously the key bindings cannot be resolved without a change for
> > either mail-mode or message-mode users. Maybe set the bindings
> > depending on some compatibility variable?
>
> How about the presence of Newsgroups?
> > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f
> > > moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC.
>
> Followup-To is rarely useful in a mail message.
A message-mode buffer can be news, mail or both. E.g. when adding Cc
to a news posting, the buffer also becomes a mail buffer (see
`message-news-p' and `message-mail-p'). I think modifying key
bindings depending on `message-news-p'/`message-mail-p' would be
confusing.
> > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-a moves to Mail-Reply-To; in message-mode
> There is no Mail-Reply-To header in the mail standards AFAIK.
> > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-l moves to Mail-Followup-To; in message-mode
> > > C-c C-f C-m moves to Mail-Followup-To and C-c C-f C-l is undefined
> There is no Mail-Followup-To header in the mail standards AFAIK,
> although there is a plausible argument that it is useful for mailing
> lists.
AFAIK, both aren't in any RFC. But at least Mail-Followup-To is quite
useful (and also supported by other MUA like mutt).
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode
2009-07-22 18:46 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Reiner Steib
@ 2009-07-23 3:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-23 5:03 ` Miles Bader
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2009-07-23 3:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reiner Steib; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ding, emacs-devel
Reiner Steib writes:
> On Wed, Jul 22 2009, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> > Reiner Steib writes:
> >
> > > Obviously the key bindings cannot be resolved without a change for
> > > either mail-mode or message-mode users. Maybe set the bindings
> > > depending on some compatibility variable?
> >
> > How about the presence of Newsgroups?
>
> > > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f
> > > > moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC.
> >
> > Followup-To is rarely useful in a mail message.
>
> A message-mode buffer can be news, mail or both.
Indeed. That's why I mention "Newsgroups" above. I'm conditioning
all my suggestions on "compatibility with the mail-only MUA that has
been default until now". Ie, they apply only when it's *not* a news
post. (As far as Emacs can tell so far: of course that can change if
the user desires.)
Of course this is a hack. I think it's a shame that Gnus chose to
cater to 1-keystroke savings rather than keep a regular, mnemonic
keymap for default, but any attempt to change the Gnus keymap now will
of course meet a response greatly resembling in all ways the response
of mail-mode advocates to suggestions of change.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode
2009-07-23 3:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
@ 2009-07-23 5:03 ` Miles Bader
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2009-07-23 5:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen J. Turnbull; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ding, Reiner Steib, emacs-devel
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> writes:
> any attempt to change the Gnus keymap now will of course meet a
> response greatly resembling in all ways the response of mail-mode
> advocates to suggestions of change.
It would differ in one respect, at least, though: there would be an
obvious and understandable reason for it...
I'm not sure there would be all that much of response though -- as a
long-time user of message-mode, I only use the barest fraction of its
bindings, and really wouldn't care much if they got re-arranged for
compatibility, or even just for sanity.
-miles
--
"... The revolution will be no re-run brothers; The revolution will be live."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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2009-07-19 11:41 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Reiner Steib
2009-07-19 12:32 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Sven Joachim
2009-07-19 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-19 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-22 7:35 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-22 18:46 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode Reiner Steib
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2009-07-23 5:03 ` Miles Bader
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2009-07-19 11:56 ` Differences between mail-mode and message-mode - sending mail (was: message-mode is now default?) Reiner Steib
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2009-07-20 20:42 ` message-mode is now default? Reiner Steib
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