picons?

picons?

[Pavel Janík]

Hi,

the function gnus-picons-display-x-face is referenced in gnus.el, but it is
no longer (from 1999-03-04 04:20:25) defined in gnus-picon.el.

P.S. Is there anyone using picons? And with GNU Emacs?
-- 
Pavel Janík

die_if_kernel("Penguin instruction from Penguin mode??!?!", regs);
                  -- 2.2.16 arch/sparc/kernel/traps.c

Re: picons?

[Daniel Pittman]

On Sun, 01 Jul 2001, Pavel Jan wrote:
> the function gnus-picons-display-x-face is referenced in gnus.el, but
> it is no longer (from 1999-03-04 04:20:25) defined in gnus-picon.el.

Does it actually get /used/, though, or is it simply bit-rotted code
that is never invoked?

> P.S. Is there anyone using picons? And with GNU Emacs?

Picons, yes. GNU Emacs, no. They work for me. :)
        Daniel

-- 
When the moon is a cold chiseled dagger / Sharp enough to draw blood from a stone
He rides through your dreams on a coach / And horses and the fence posts
In the moonlight look like bones.
       -- Tom Waits & K. Brennan, _Black Wings_

Re: picons?

[Colin Walters]

Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> the function gnus-picons-display-x-face is referenced in gnus.el, but it is
> no longer (from 1999-03-04 04:20:25) defined in gnus-picon.el.
> 
> P.S. Is there anyone using picons? And with GNU Emacs?

The version of Gnus for Emacs 21 has this additional section in the
manual:

,----[ Gnus 5.9.0 manual, node "Emacs Enhancements" ]
|    Starting with version 21, Emacs is able to display pictures and
| stuff, so Gnus has taken advantage of that.
|
| [...]
| 
|    There is currently no Emacs support for `Picons' (*note Picons::),
| but there is no reason why it couldn't be added.
`----

Re: picons?

[Pavel Janík]

   From: Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>
   Date: 02 Jul 2001 09:57:15 +1000

Hi,

   > On Sun, 01 Jul 2001, Pavel Jan wrote:
   > > the function gnus-picons-display-x-face is referenced in gnus.el, but
   > > it is no longer (from 1999-03-04 04:20:25) defined in gnus-picon.el.
   > 
   > Does it actually get /used/, though, or is it simply bit-rotted code
   > that is never invoked?

cd ~/.Emacs/Work/gnus/
find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 -e grep -n -e gnus-picons-display-x-face
./lisp/gnus.el:1971:      gnus-picons-display-x-face)
./lisp/ChangeLog.1:5991:	(gnus-picons-display-x-face): Ditto.

The ChangeLog entry says, that this function was removed...


   From: Colin Walters <walters@cis.ohio-state.edu>
   Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:13:36 -0400

   > The version of Gnus for Emacs 21 has this additional section in the
   > manual:
   > 
   > ,----[ Gnus 5.9.0 manual, node "Emacs Enhancements" ]
   > |    Starting with version 21, Emacs is able to display pictures and
   > | stuff, so Gnus has taken advantage of that.

But I do not use Gnus 5.9.0...

   > |    There is currently no Emacs support for `Picons' (*note Picons::),
   > | but there is no reason why it couldn't be added.

... and this is why I am asking :-) We have X-Faces in GNU Emacs, so why
not having picons? Anyone already working on it?
-- 
Pavel Janík

For real intimacy with Emacs, you must read the source code.
                  -- Richard M. Stallman in GNU Emacs manual

Re: picons?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:20:54 +0200, Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) said:

>> ,----[ Gnus 5.9.0 manual, node "Emacs Enhancements" ]
>> |    Starting with version 21, Emacs is able to display pictures and
>> | stuff, so Gnus has taken advantage of that.

Pavel> But I do not use Gnus 5.9.0...

>> |    There is currently no Emacs support for `Picons' (*note Picons::),
>> | but there is no reason why it couldn't be added.

Pavel> ... and this is why I am asking :-) We have X-Faces in GNU
Pavel> Emacs, so why not having picons? Anyone already working on it?

When I originally wrote the picons support, Emacs had no image
capabilities so the code is (was, much of it has been rewritten) very
xemacs specific.  You *should* be able to add Emacs support without
too much trouble, I would think, however.

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: picons?

[Pavel Janík]

   From: Wes Hardaker <wes@hardakers.net>
   Date: 02 Jul 2001 07:31:35 -0700

Hi,

   > Pavel> ... and this is why I am asking :-) We have X-Faces in GNU
   > Pavel> Emacs, so why not having picons? Anyone already working on it?
   > 
   > When I originally wrote the picons support, Emacs had no image
   > capabilities so the code is (was, much of it has been rewritten) very
   > xemacs specific.  You *should* be able to add Emacs support without
   > too much trouble, I would think, however.

I do not think it is easy to port picons to GNU Emacs 21, because it
does/will not support annotations and thus it will consist of writing an
emulation layer below the actual code. Or (maybe better solution ;-)
complete rewrite of gnus-picons.el to be almost independent of Emacs's
implementation with a small implementation dependent layer below it. What
do you think?
-- 
Pavel Janík

printk("??? No FDIV bug? Lucky you...\n");
                  -- 2.2.16 include/asm-i386/bugs.h

Re: picons?

[Kai Großjohann]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Pavel Janík wrote:

> I do not think it is easy to port picons to GNU Emacs 21, because it
> does/will not support annotations

What do annotations do in XEmacs?

kai
-- 
~/.signature: No such file or directory

Re: picons?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:13:11 +0200, Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) said:

Pavel> I do not think it is easy to port picons to GNU Emacs 21,
Pavel> because it does/will not support annotations and thus it will
Pavel> consist of writing an emulation layer below the actual code. Or
Pavel> (maybe better solution ;-) complete rewrite of gnus-picons.el
Pavel> to be almost independent of Emacs's implementation with a small
Pavel> implementation dependent layer below it. What do you think?

I was thinking that the annotations layer would move lower and a
generic "gnus-insert-image" defun was needed that would be implemented
differently on the two different architectures (Emacs vs XEmacs).

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: picons?

[Wes Hardaker]

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>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:04:05 +0200, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) said:

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Kai> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Pavel Janík wrote:
>> I do not think it is easy to port picons to GNU Emacs 21, because it
>> does/will not support annotations

Kai> What do annotations do in XEmacs?

     An "annotation" is a pixmap or string that is not part of a buffer's
  text but is displayed next to a particular location in a buffer.
  Annotations can be displayed intermixed with text, in any whitespace at
  the beginning or end of a line, or in a special area at the left or
  right side of the frame called a "margin", whose size is controllable.
  Annotations are implemented using extents (*note Extents::); but you
  can work with annotations without knowing how extents work.

(my original reason for using them was that they were simply easier to
use)

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: picons?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 10 Jul 2001, Wes Hardaker wrote:

>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:04:05 +0200,
>>>>>> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) said:
> 
> Kai> What do annotations do in XEmacs?
> 
>      An "annotation" is a pixmap or string that is not part of a
>      buffer's text but is displayed next to a particular location in
>      a buffer.  Annotations can be displayed intermixed with text,
>      in any whitespace at the beginning or end of a line, or in a
>      special area at the left or right side of the frame called a
>      "margin", whose size is controllable.  Annotations are
>      implemented using extents (*note Extents::); but you can work
>      with annotations without knowing how extents work.

Looks like overlays can do the trick in Emacs, right?

> (my original reason for using them was that they were simply easier
> to use)

Though they might not be so easy to use.

kai
-- 
~/.signature: No such file or directory

Re: picons?

[Didier Verna]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) wrote:

> What do annotations do in XEmacs?

        They're an abstraction layer on top of glyphs / extents, which purpose
is to provide an easy to use interface to insert images at some special places
in buffers. From the XEmacs info doc:

 ,----
|    An "annotation" is a pixmap or string that is not part of a buffer's
| text but is displayed next to a particular location in a buffer.
| Annotations can be displayed intermixed with text, in any whitespace at
| the beginning or end of a line, or in a special area at the left or
| right side of the frame called a "margin", whose size is controllable.
| Annotations are implemented using extents (*note Extents::); but you
| can work with annotations without knowing how extents work.
`-----


-- 
Didier Verna, didier@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier

EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire   Tel.+33 (1) 53 14 59 47
94276 Le Kremlin-Bicêtre, France   Fax.+33 (1) 44 08 01 99   didier@xemacs.org

Re: picons?

[Pavel Janík]

   From: Wes Hardaker <wes@hardakers.net>
   Date: 10 Jul 2001 08:03:00 -0700

Hi,

   > I was thinking that the annotations layer would move lower and a
   > generic "gnus-insert-image" defun was needed that would be implemented
   > differently on the two different architectures (Emacs vs XEmacs).

yes, this is what I meant. Are you willing to first rewrite picons to use
that stuff? I think it is worthy to do even for smileys that Dave Love
rewrote for GNU Emacs 21. Then we could get rid of smiley-ems and similar
stuff and it will also be much more easier for Emacs maintainers to
integrate next version of Gnus into Emacs.
-- 
Pavel Janík

What this mailing list needs is a good old-fashioned OS flame war, so
let me start it off by mentioning some of the stuff that makes OpenBSD
a pain.
                  -- Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen in gnus.ding

Re: picons?

[Pavel Janík]

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   From: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann)
   Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:47:20 +0200

Hi,

   > Looks like overlays can do the trick in Emacs, right?

of course, this is almost the same problem as with smileys. But IMHO it
would be better to rewrite the original code to use generic functions with
GNU Emacs's and XEmacs layers below it.

   > > (my original reason for using them was that they were simply easier
   > > to use)
   > 
   > Though they might not be so easy to use.

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I do not think it is that hard to use them :-) It is pretty easy - just see
smiley-ems.el by Dave.
-- 
Pavel Janík

The truth is the truth. An opinion is an opinion. Don't confuse the two.
                  -- Larry McVoy

Re: picons?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:11:11 +0200, Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) said:

>> Looks like overlays can do the trick in Emacs, right?

Pavel> of course, this is almost the same problem as with smileys. But
Pavel> IMHO it would be better to rewrite the original code to use
Pavel> generic functions with GNU Emacs's and XEmacs layers below it.

(guess who wrote the smiley code ;-)

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: picons?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:47:20 +0200, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) said:

Kai> What do annotations do in XEmacs?

Wes> An "annotation" is a pixmap or string that is not part of a
Wes> buffer's text but is displayed next to a particular location in
Wes> a buffer.  Annotations can be displayed intermixed with text,
Wes> in any whitespace at the beginning or end of a line, or in a
Wes> special area at the left or right side of the frame called a
Wes> "margin", whose size is controllable.  Annotations are
Wes> implemented using extents (*note Extents::); but you can work
Wes> with annotations without knowing how extents work.

Kai> Looks like overlays can do the trick in Emacs, right?

I don't know, unfortunately, I stopped using Emacs a number of years
ago (for a long time they were both installed on my boxes, but...)

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: picons?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:06:29 +0200, Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) said:

>> I was thinking that the annotations layer would move lower and a
>> generic "gnus-insert-image" defun was needed that would be implemented
>> differently on the two different architectures (Emacs vs XEmacs).

Pavel> yes, this is what I meant. Are you willing to first rewrite
Pavel> picons to use that stuff? I think it is worthy to do even for
Pavel> smileys that Dave Love rewrote for GNU Emacs 21. Then we could
Pavel> get rid of smiley-ems and similar stuff and it will also be
Pavel> much more easier for Emacs maintainers to integrate next
Pavel> version of Gnus into Emacs.

I might be willing post-August or so at the earliest...  I'm kind of
swamped until then.

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."