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* Maildir++ subfolders
@ 2020-09-14  5:46 Kevin Shell
  2020-09-14  5:55 ` Kevin Shell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-14  5:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Hello list.

How to get Gnus display Maildir++ subfolders?
They all start with dot(.) character, but Gnus ignores all
folders start with dot.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-14  5:46 Maildir++ subfolders Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-14  5:55 ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-14 21:27   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-14  5:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> writes:

> Hello list.
>
> How to get Gnus display Maildir++ subfolders?
> They all start with dot(.) character, but Gnus ignores all
> folders start with dot.

I use the Gnus nnmaildir backend.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-14  5:55 ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-14 21:27   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-15  0:10     ` Kevin Shell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-14 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> writes:

> Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Hello list.
>>
>> How to get Gnus display Maildir++ subfolders?
>> They all start with dot(.) character, but Gnus ignores all
>> folders start with dot.
>
> I use the Gnus nnmaildir backend.

Looks like the code explicitly ignores folders that start with a dot,
and forbids you from creating groups whose name starts with a dot.

I'm not a maildir expert, but it looks like the standard maildir format
doesn't provide for multiple folders, and the maildir++ format does
provide for multiple folders, but *requires* them to start with a dot.

Dovecot (the only program I know well that deal with maildir) uses
maildir++ by default, but allows you to turn on a setting that uses
non-dot-prefixed, potentially nested folder names.

But beyond that it looks like the "normal" thing to do is dot-prefixed
folder names (and subfolders emulated with multiple dots).

Does anyone know why nnmaildir does it the way it does? I suppose it
might make sense to give nnmaildir servers the option to choose between
"traditional layout" and "filesystem layout".

Eric



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-14 21:27   ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-09-15  0:10     ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-15  4:13       ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-15  0:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Dovecot (the only program I know well that deal with maildir) uses
> maildir++ by default, but allows you to turn on a setting that uses
> non-dot-prefixed, potentially nested folder names.
>
Courier mail server invented the Maildir++ format,
all subfolders in Courier mail server start with dot character.
Dovecot follows the convention.

> But beyond that it looks like the "normal" thing to do is dot-prefixed
> folder names (and subfolders emulated with multiple dots).
>
> Does anyone know why nnmaildir does it the way it does? I suppose it
> might make sense to give nnmaildir servers the option to choose between
> "traditional layout" and "filesystem layout".
>

There are a lot of Dovecot servers using Maildir++ format,
my feature request. :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-15  0:10     ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-15  4:13       ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-15  6:04         ` Kevin Shell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-15  4:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Dovecot (the only program I know well that deal with maildir) uses
>> maildir++ by default, but allows you to turn on a setting that uses
>> non-dot-prefixed, potentially nested folder names.
>>
> Courier mail server invented the Maildir++ format,
> all subfolders in Courier mail server start with dot character.
> Dovecot follows the convention.
>
>> But beyond that it looks like the "normal" thing to do is dot-prefixed
>> folder names (and subfolders emulated with multiple dots).
>>
>> Does anyone know why nnmaildir does it the way it does? I suppose it
>> might make sense to give nnmaildir servers the option to choose between
>> "traditional layout" and "filesystem layout".
>>
>
> There are a lot of Dovecot servers using Maildir++ format,
> my feature request. :-)

There's already Bug#21258 open, which essentially covers this same issue
(namely, nnmaildir should be able to handle all the typical maildir
layouts). I've added that to my list of bugs to get to someday -- no one
seems very excited about working on nnmaildir, but I'll get to it eventually...



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-15  4:13       ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-09-15  6:04         ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-15 11:16           ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-15  6:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> writes:
>
>>
>> There are a lot of Dovecot servers using Maildir++ format,
>> my feature request. :-)
>
> There's already Bug#21258 open, which essentially covers this same issue
> (namely, nnmaildir should be able to handle all the typical maildir
> layouts). I've added that to my list of bugs to get to someday -- no one
> seems very excited about working on nnmaildir, but I'll get to it eventually...

Thanks. :-)
I'm big fan of Maildir/Maildir++ format.
With Maildir/Maildir++ format,
one can read mails directly against Dovecot mail folders,
or syncs mails from imap server and indexing with notmuch search engine.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-15  6:04         ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-15 11:16           ` Eric S Fraga
  2020-09-15 15:59             ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2020-09-15 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Tuesday, 15 Sep 2020 at 14:04, Kevin Shell wrote:
> I'm big fan of Maildir/Maildir++ format.

I also am a big fan of this format, especially as I read email on
different systems with synchronized file systems.  Maildir is ideal to
avoid inconsistent systems or overwriting.  

However, nnmaildir does not scale well, having what I estimate to be
O(n^3) time to rescan/re-index folders.  With large nnmaildir folders
(>10000 messages), nnmaildir becomes unusable.

I've moved to nnml instead, using folder names that include the system
name (via gnus splitting) and virtual groups to collect the emails from
different systems for presentation.  With nnml, there is no need to
re-index groups (or it's trivial for gnus to do so).

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50 & org 9.3.7 on Debian bullseye/sid



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-15 11:16           ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2020-09-15 15:59             ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-09-16 14:45               ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-09-15 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Tuesday, 15 Sep 2020 at 14:04, Kevin Shell wrote:
>> I'm big fan of Maildir/Maildir++ format.
>
> I also am a big fan of this format, especially as I read email on
> different systems with synchronized file systems.  Maildir is ideal to
> avoid inconsistent systems or overwriting.  
>
> However, nnmaildir does not scale well, having what I estimate to be
> O(n^3) time to rescan/re-index folders.  With large nnmaildir folders
> (>10000 messages), nnmaildir becomes unusable.

When I do get to nnmaildir, the two main things I want to do are to
allow for dot-prefixed folder layouts, and to find a way to allow more
control of the indexing of messages. At the very least we could start by
letting users shut off nov generation entirely. That would slow down
header generation, but other access would be instant. Ideally we'd be
able to have a "index on first access" option, which might be the best
of both worlds.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Maildir++ subfolders
  2020-09-15 15:59             ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-09-16 14:45               ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2020-09-16 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Tuesday, 15 Sep 2020 at 08:59, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> When I do get to nnmaildir, the two main things I want to do are to
> allow for dot-prefixed folder layouts, and to find a way to allow more
> control of the indexing of messages. 

Sounds good.  I look forward to it.  I wouldn't mind going back to
nnmaildir in due course.  Thank you.
-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50 & org 9.3.7 on Debian bullseye/sid



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-16 14:46 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-14  5:46 Maildir++ subfolders Kevin Shell
2020-09-14  5:55 ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-14 21:27   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-09-15  0:10     ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-15  4:13       ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-09-15  6:04         ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-15 11:16           ` Eric S Fraga
2020-09-15 15:59             ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-09-16 14:45               ` Eric S Fraga

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