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* how to forward a message that contains attachment
@ 2020-04-04 14:33 Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-04 14:54 ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-04 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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Hi 

I am running GNU emacs master from august 2019
and the corresponding gnus version

I have set (setq message-forward-as-mime t) 
(setq message-forward-show-mml t)       

And tried all the different options 
gnus-summary-mail-forward 

But the attachments are not sent, and some messages are displayed empty
in thunderbird and the gmail interface.

Any ideas?

Thanks and regards

Uwe Brauer 

[-- Attachment #2: smime.p7s --]
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-04 14:33 how to forward a message that contains attachment Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-04 14:54 ` Eric S Fraga
  2020-04-04 18:57   ` Uwe Brauer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2020-04-04 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Saturday,  4 Apr 2020 at 16:33, Uwe Brauer wrote:
> I am running GNU emacs master from august 2019
> and the corresponding gnus version
>
> I have set (setq message-forward-as-mime t) 

I have found that setting this to nil generally works better.  And then
sometimes needing to C-u for gnus-summary-mail-forward.

Bit of hit and miss generally in my experience, unfortunately.  But I
don't think it's gnus's fault.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50 & org 9.3.6 on Debian bullseye/sid



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-04 14:54 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2020-04-04 18:57   ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-05  2:00     ` Bob Newell
  2020-04-05 13:18     ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-04 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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>>> "ESF" == Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Saturday,  4 Apr 2020 at 16:33, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>> I am running GNU emacs master from august 2019
>> and the corresponding gnus version
>> 
>> I have set (setq message-forward-as-mime t) 

> I have found that setting this to nil generally works better.  And then
> sometimes needing to C-u for gnus-summary-mail-forward.

The message is forwarded, the attachments not

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-04 18:57   ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-05  2:00     ` Bob Newell
  2020-04-05  6:07       ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-05 13:18     ` Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2020-04-05  2:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

> The message is forwarded, the attachments not

So  this is how I do it, not completely ideal but working for me, your
mileage will vary.

;;; There is no forward key in the article buffer, so make one.
;;; Oddly gnus-summary-mail-forward seems to work correctly.
(define-key gnus-article-mode-map "\C-c\C-f" 'gnus-summary-mail-forward)

;;; Make summary forwarding behave a little better. This also makes
;;; message forwarding and summary forwarding consistent. But note that
;;; if you wish to forward an attachment you must use M-2\C-c\C-f.
(setq message-forward-as-mime nil)
(setq message-forward-show-mml nil)
(setq message-forward-included-headers "^Date\\|^From\\|^To\\|^Subject:")

M-2\C-c\C-f unfortunately makes the whole message multipart (not just
the attachments). I have to yet to figure out how to put the message
inline and make the attachments a MIME part.

This is from my "stupid gnus hacks" webpage,
http://www.bobnewell.net/publish/35years/gnuhacks.html .
-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

Via Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05  2:00     ` Bob Newell
@ 2020-04-05  6:07       ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-05 19:31         ` Bob Newell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-05  6:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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>>> "BN" == Bob Newell <bobnewell@bobnewell.net> writes:

>> The message is forwarded, the attachments not
> So  this is how I do it, not completely ideal but working for me, your
> mileage will vary.

> ;;; There is no forward key in the article buffer, so make one.
> ;;; Oddly gnus-summary-mail-forward seems to work correctly.
> (define-key gnus-article-mode-map "\C-c\C-f" 'gnus-summary-mail-forward)

> ;;; Make summary forwarding behave a little better. This also makes
> ;;; message forwarding and summary forwarding consistent. But note that
> ;;; if you wish to forward an attachment you must use M-2\C-c\C-f.
> (setq message-forward-as-mime nil)
> (setq message-forward-show-mml nil)
> (setq message-forward-included-headers "^Date\\|^From\\|^To\\|^Subject:")

> M-2\C-c\C-f unfortunately makes the whole message multipart (not just
> the attachments). I have to yet to figure out how to put the message
> inline and make the attachments a MIME part.

Hi 

I found your webpage a couple of days ago and tried it out. Surprise:
it does not work in the following sense.

    1. When opening the message with the latest seamonkey (which is
       basically firefox+thunderbird), the message is *not* displayed
       and no attachment is seen

    2. In the web interface of gmail it is even worse:
I see stuff like this 


Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
8:02 AM (2 minutes ago)

to Uwe

RGVsaXZlcmVkLVRvOiBvdWJAbWF0LnVjbS5lcwpSZWNlaXZlZDogYnkgMjAwMjphMTc6OTA2Ojdm
OTI6MDowOjA6MCB3aXRoIFNNVFAgaWQgZjE4Y3NwNzE5NTAyZWpyOyBGcmksIDMKIEFwciAyMDIw
IDA5OjU2OjUzIC0wNzAwIChQRFQpClgtUmVjZWl2ZWQ6IGJ5IDIwMDI6YTFjOmRjNTU6OiB3aXRo
IFNNVFAgaWQgdDgybXI5NDU5ODM4d21nLjYuMTU4NTkzMjk5Njg4OTsKIEZyaSwgMDMgQXByIDIw
MjAgMDk6NTY6MzYgLTA3MDAgKFBEVCkKQVJDLVNlYWw6IGk9MTsgYT1yc2Etc2hhMjU2OyB0PTE1
ODU5MzI5OTY7IGN2PW5vbmU7IGQ9Z29vZ2xlLmNvbTsKIHM9YXJjLTIwMTYwODE2OwogYj1CbGZG

Which looks like base64 encoding.

In gnus, the message is displayed 



[[S/MIME Signed Part:Good signature from 285DB563F3701BD406D4FD057AA02D6E9200635A /CN=BRAUER UWE RICHARD OTTO - X2064123B/C=ES/SN=BRAUER/GN=UWE RICHARD OTTO/SerialNumber=IDCES-X2064123B (trust full)]]
[[End of S/MIME Signed Part]]


So something is very odd here.

Uwe 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-04 18:57   ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-05  2:00     ` Bob Newell
@ 2020-04-05 13:18     ` Eric S Fraga
  2020-04-05 17:11       ` Uwe Brauer
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2020-04-05 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Saturday,  4 Apr 2020 at 20:57, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>> I have found that setting this to nil generally works better.  And then
>> sometimes needing to C-u for gnus-summary-mail-forward.
>
> The message is forwarded, the attachments not

I usually manage to get attachments forwarded.  Sometimes I have to try
different arguments to forward, e.g. C-u C-c C-f instead of just C-c C-f
or even with different values of argument, e.g. C-u 2 C-c C-f.

Mind you, I've never tested with Thunderbird; if/when I test forwarding
and other sharing aspects, I use either gmail or disroot. 

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50 & org 9.3.6 on Debian bullseye/sid



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05 13:18     ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2020-04-05 17:11       ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-05 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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>>> "ESF" == Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Saturday,  4 Apr 2020 at 20:57, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>>> I have found that setting this to nil generally works better.  And then
>>> sometimes needing to C-u for gnus-summary-mail-forward.
>> 
>> The message is forwarded, the attachments not

> I usually manage to get attachments forwarded.  Sometimes I have to try
> different arguments to forward, e.g. C-u C-c C-f instead of just C-c C-f
> or even with different values of argument, e.g. C-u 2 C-c C-f.

> Mind you, I've never tested with Thunderbird; if/when I test forwarding
> and other sharing aspects, I use either gmail or disroot. 

Most of the people I am in correspondence today are using gmail sigh, so
if the attachment do not arrive there, I have a problem. I have the
feeling the forward function worked better some years ago. Not sure what happened.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05 17:11       ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-04-05 21:25           ` dick.r.chiang
                             ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-04-05 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Uwe writes:

> I have the feeling the forward function worked better some years ago.
> Not sure what happened.

Maybe you have changed your configuration in the meantime?

I just did an experiment:

 a) I composed an email in Gmail with an attachment and sent it to Gnus;
    the original in Gmail looks like this in the Sent-folder:

     · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gmail-original.png

 b) I received the email in Gnus, and pressed C-c C-f to forward it back
    to Gmail; the buffer looked like this:

     · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gnus-forwarding.png

 c) When I received the forwarded email in Gmail, it looked like this:

     · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gmail-forwarded.png

So that simple case works as expected for me.

For anyone to help you figure out the problem, I suggest you create a
recipe that shows the problem, so other people can try to reproduce the
problem.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "It's probably buried so deep that they don't even         Adam Sjøgren
  know it's there."                                    asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05  6:07       ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-05 19:31         ` Bob Newell
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2020-04-05 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

>
>     1. When opening the message with the latest seamonkey (which is
>        basically firefox+thunderbird), the message is *not* displayed
>        and no attachment is seen
>
>     2. In the web interface of gmail it is even worse:

Thanks for this report. As I said, your mileage will vary :)

But this morning I've been doing some testing with forwarding
with attachments from gnus to gmail accounts, and everything
works correctly in my setup[1][2]. I can't test Thunderbird
unfortunately so I can't say more about that.

I suspect the difference is in the various message-forward-
variables but am not sure. Unfortunately problems like these
seem quite idiosyncratic and hard to chase down among
differing installations of gnus.

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i
- Via Gnus/BBDB/Org/Emacs/Linux

[1] Still, it forwards the main message as a separate part and
repeats it. Not an error per se, but aesthetically displeasing,
although not enough so for me to spend time researching
further!

[2] Although I'm finding that the C-u 2 prefix does not any
longer seem necessary. Maybe it never was and I just thought
so. Also hard to track down.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2020-04-05 21:25           ` dick.r.chiang
  2020-04-06 10:19             ` gmail setup (was: how to forward a message that contains attachment) Alberto Luaces
  2020-04-06 10:19           ` how to forward a message that contains attachment Uwe Brauer
                             ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: dick.r.chiang @ 2020-04-05 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Adam Sjøgren; +Cc: ding

Your opinion regarding GMail appears to have changed.  Surely, now, having
begrudgingly joined the ranks of those willing to sacrifice their
privacy for the convenience of an always-on, everywhere-accessible
big-box mail service, you'll admit my earlier desire to facilitate the path
between Gmail and Gnus more "imaginable" than you let on several months ago.

I continue to bemoan Gnus's de facto guidance, i.e., the top search results
for "gnus gmail", on the extremely common task of integrating a big-box IMAP
service -- a task mu4e and notmuch have made much easier than Gnus.

From: Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk>
Subject: Re: Proposed new introductory section to the Gnus manual
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general
To: ding@gnus.org
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 22:39:36 +0200 (29 weeks, 5 days, 27 minutes ago)
Organization: koldfront - analysis & revolution, Copenhagen, Denmark

dick writes:

> I'm typical of most newcomers who merely want their cloud service, i.e.,
> Gmail, integrated into emacs.

If there is one thing I have learned about email over the past 25 years,
it is that no two people agree on how they want to handle their email.

What I want, some people think is nuts, and the other way around.

> I couldn't find anything authoritative for this pedestrian task.

See, from my perspective, I can't imagine why a user of Emacs would want
to gift all their email to Google.

To you it's "typical".

I'm sure we could go on with a looong list like that.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-04-05 21:25           ` dick.r.chiang
@ 2020-04-06 10:19           ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-06 10:26           ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-06 11:36           ` Uwe Brauer
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-06 10:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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>>> "AS" == Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Uwe writes:
>> I have the feeling the forward function worked better some years ago.
>> Not sure what happened.

> Maybe you have changed your configuration in the meantime?

> I just did an experiment:

>  a) I composed an email in Gmail with an attachment and sent it to Gnus;
>     the original in Gmail looks like this in the Sent-folder:

>      · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gmail-original.png

>  b) I received the email in Gnus, and pressed C-c C-f to forward it back
>     to Gmail; the buffer looked like this:

>      · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gnus-forwarding.png

>  c) When I received the forwarded email in Gmail, it looked like this:

>      · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gmail-forwarded.png

> So that simple case works as expected for me.

> For anyone to help you figure out the problem, I suggest you create a
> recipe that shows the problem, so other people can try to reproduce the
> problem.

Right, I think I have to debug first my setting and make a recipe. I
will also try out a more recent emacs version. 

Uwe 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* gmail setup (was: how to forward a message that contains attachment)
  2020-04-05 21:25           ` dick.r.chiang
@ 2020-04-06 10:19             ` Alberto Luaces
  2020-04-07 16:42               ` gmail setup dick.r.chiang
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Alberto Luaces @ 2020-04-06 10:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

dick.r.chiang writes:

> I continue to bemoan Gnus's de facto guidance, i.e., the top search results
> for "gnus gmail", on the extremely common task of integrating a big-box IMAP
> service -- a task mu4e and notmuch have made much easier than Gnus.

mu4e and notmuch do not have to interact at all with gmail's IMAP —
that is a task for offlineimap or mbsync, as it is stated in their
respective manuals.

And then you will see that everybody has to join the very same
obstacle-avoidance race that is to interact with those specific servers.

-- 
Alberto



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-04-05 21:25           ` dick.r.chiang
  2020-04-06 10:19           ` how to forward a message that contains attachment Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-06 10:26           ` Uwe Brauer
  2020-04-07 17:03             ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-04-06 11:36           ` Uwe Brauer
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-06 10:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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>>> "AS" == Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Uwe writes:
>> I have the feeling the forward function worked better some years ago.
>> Not sure what happened.

> Maybe you have changed your configuration in the meantime?

> I just did an experiment:

>  a) I composed an email in Gmail with an attachment and sent it to Gnus;
>     the original in Gmail looks like this in the Sent-folder:

>      · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gmail-original.png

>  b) I received the email in Gnus, and pressed C-c C-f to forward it back
>     to Gmail; the buffer looked like this:

>      · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gnus-forwarding.png

>  c) When I received the forwarded email in Gmail, it looked like this:

>      · https://koldfront.dk/misc/gnus/gmail-forwarded.png

> So that simple case works as expected for me.

> For anyone to help you figure out the problem, I suggest you create a
> recipe that shows the problem, so other people can try to reproduce the
> problem.

BTW did you configure with mailutils? I tend not to do that, but since
configure warned me when not using it, I turn it on.
Could that be the problem?

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
                             ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-04-06 10:26           ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-06 11:36           ` Uwe Brauer
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2020-04-06 11:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


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>>> "AS" == Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Uwe writes:
>> I have the feeling the forward function worked better some years ago.
>> Not sure what happened.

> For anyone to help you figure out the problem, I suggest you create a
> recipe that shows the problem, so other people can try to reproduce the
> problem.


I just compiled GNU emacs from today master. 

Then simple gnus-summary-mail-forward (with no arguments) behaves as
expected, while the version from august does not.

However this version from today cannot display smime signed messages
correctly.

Well I have to pin this down.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: gmail setup
  2020-04-06 10:19             ` gmail setup (was: how to forward a message that contains attachment) Alberto Luaces
@ 2020-04-07 16:42               ` dick.r.chiang
  2020-04-07 17:46                 ` Alberto Luaces
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: dick.r.chiang @ 2020-04-07 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alberto Luaces; +Cc: ding

AL> mu4e and notmuch do not have to interact at all with gmail's IMAP — that
AL> is a task for offlineimap or mbsync

True, and having looked again at Google's lead results for "notmuch gmail" and
"mu4e gmail," perhaps I've given those competing packages too much credit.
Their documentation also seem community-driven and ad hoc, but at least there's
a consensus about the general approach.

With Gnus, there's nnimap, nnmaildir, and nnmail, all
three of which have been perennially criticized for slowness, and which our
lead Google result (a github page called "A Practical Guide to Gnus")
completely glosses over.  Those who manage to get that far are then repeatedly
asked "How many articles from INBOX?" whenever
they access an inbox with more than 200 messages (the key of course is to set
gnus-large-newsgroup to a bigger number).  Add to that all the nontrivial
elisp to get gnus to look reasonable (gnus-demon, posting styles,
notifications, select methods), and it's no wonder 9 out of 10 emacsers
looking to integrate their mail choose mu4e and notmuch (my 9/10 statistic is
completely without evidence).


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: how to forward a message that contains attachment
  2020-04-06 10:26           ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2020-04-07 17:03             ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-04-07 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Uwe writes:

> BTW did you configure with mailutils?

When compiling Emacs? I use:

  time (./configure --without-pop --with-cairo && make bootstrap)

> I tend not to do that, but >since configure warned me when not using
> it, I turn it on. Could that be the problem?

I'm not sure what difference it makes.


  Best regards,

    Adm

-- 
 "Flyt nu din klamme skumgummikæft, dit lille svin!"        Adam Sjøgren
                                                       asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: gmail setup
  2020-04-07 16:42               ` gmail setup dick.r.chiang
@ 2020-04-07 17:46                 ` Alberto Luaces
  2020-04-07 18:19                   ` dick.r.chiang
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Alberto Luaces @ 2020-04-07 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

dick.r.chiang writes:

> AL> mu4e and notmuch do not have to interact at all with gmail's IMAP — that
> AL> is a task for offlineimap or mbsync
>
> True, and having looked again at Google's lead results for "notmuch gmail" and
> "mu4e gmail," perhaps I've given those competing packages too much credit.
> Their documentation also seem community-driven and ad hoc, but at least there's
> a consensus about the general approach.
>

"community-driven"?  Of course!  Since they apply to specific quirks of
gmail.  If I recall correctly, the non-community-driven manual of mu4e
has an appendix for gmail configuration, but that's a courtesy.

>
> With Gnus, there's nnimap, nnmaildir, and nnmail, all
> three of which have been perennially criticized for slowness, and which our
> lead Google result (a github page called "A Practical Guide to Gnus")
> completely glosses over.  Those who manage to get that far are then repeatedly
> asked "How many articles from INBOX?" whenever
> they access an inbox with more than 200 messages (the key of course is to set
> gnus-large-newsgroup to a bigger number).

Correction: more than 200 *unread* messages.  And that is a cure for
that slowness you mention, since you are not loading messages that you
are not likely wanting to see.  When I subscribe to an nntp group with a
huge number of archives, I usually answer "50" or so to quickly glance
over the latest messages, and then "c" to catch-up and mark all of them
as read, so the next time I enter the group only new, unread messages
are displayed.

> Add to that all the nontrivial elisp to get gnus to look reasonable
> (gnus-demon, posting styles, notifications, select methods), and it's
> no wonder 9 out of 10 emacsers looking to integrate their mail choose
> mu4e and notmuch (my 9/10 statistic is completely without evidence).

Not really needed, as long as your configuration is not somewhat
complex.  I have managed in the past to use gnus without writing any
configuration myself — just creating an nnimap server with "e" from the
server window and filling the parameters needed when sending (remember
that the default is `smtpmail-query-smtp-server' which makes the
questions at the first time).

-- 
Alberto



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: gmail setup
  2020-04-07 17:46                 ` Alberto Luaces
@ 2020-04-07 18:19                   ` dick.r.chiang
  2020-04-07 18:35                     ` Alberto Luaces
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: dick.r.chiang @ 2020-04-07 18:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alberto Luaces; +Cc: ding

AL> Correction: more than 200 *unread* messages.

The "How many articles" question is asked when accessing an inbox
that has N unreads where N is either zero or a number greater than
gnus-large-newsgroup.  People more than occasionally access their inbox
when N is zero.

AL> I have managed in the past to use gnus without writing any configuration
AL> myself — just creating an nnimap server with "e" from the server window
AL> and filling the parameters needed

With respect, this is "over the heads" of most users.  The "*Server*"
buffer somewhat "trickily" accessed via "^" is already a headscratcher (it was
for me!) for people accustomed to mainstream mail clients.

I admit that complaining does not advance Gnus's cause.  In my defense, I've
published a talk-is-cheap-show-me-the-code primer to Gnus IMAP (https://github.com/dickmao/gnus-imap-walkthrough), but removing
"A Practical Guide to Gnus" from its lofty throne atop Google's results is all
but impossible at this point.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: gmail setup
  2020-04-07 18:19                   ` dick.r.chiang
@ 2020-04-07 18:35                     ` Alberto Luaces
  2020-04-08  1:53                       ` Bob Newell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Alberto Luaces @ 2020-04-07 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

dick.r.chiang:

> AL> Correction: more than 200 *unread* messages.
>
> The "How many articles" question is asked when accessing an inbox
> that has N unreads where N is either zero or a number greater than
> gnus-large-newsgroup.  People more than occasionally access their inbox
> when N is zero.
>

Strange use case you have there: I don't do that.  If I wanted to access
a group with zero unread messages, I would search (with nnnir, for
example) instead.  And, by the way, let's not forget the excellent
dianyou!  (https://github.com/redguardtoo/dianyou)

>
> AL> I have managed in the past to use gnus without writing any configuration
> AL> myself — just creating an nnimap server with "e" from the server window
> AL> and filling the parameters needed
>
> With respect, this is "over the heads" of most users.  The "*Server*"
> buffer somewhat "trickily" accessed via "^" is already a headscratcher (it was
> for me!) for people accustomed to mainstream mail clients.
>

It is in the manual, which is the supposedly is the primary source of
information, over those blog posts that can be not so exhaustive, or
even incomplete.

But my point was that setting an nnimap server usually is best done with
the less parameters the better.

>
> I admit that complaining does not advance Gnus's cause.  In my
>defense, I've
> published a talk-is-cheap-show-me-the-code primer to Gnus IMAP
> (https://github.com/dickmao/gnus-imap-walkthrough),

Thanks for that!  Looks interesting.

>but removing
> "A Practical Guide to Gnus" from its lofty throne atop Google's results is all
> but impossible at this point.
>

Well, you can also either change your email provider and/or your web
search engine.  Yes, I do have a gmail account, but nowadays is not my
primary address, and have almost nothing in there.  I moved to more
standard-caring hosts (almost anyone but google).

-- 
Alberto



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: gmail setup
  2020-04-07 18:35                     ` Alberto Luaces
@ 2020-04-08  1:53                       ` Bob Newell
  2020-04-10 16:56                         ` Alberto Luaces
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2020-04-08  1:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Aloha,

There's a point to be made here, which I've mentioned at other
times, and with which not everyone agrees. (I would not expect
or even want that--- diversity of thought is a great thing.)

Gnus is in fact complex. There are ways to get started with
gnus that are less complex but I wouldn't say any of them are
simple. And as you try to do more and more things, the
complexity is unavoidable.

But then, if the complexity puts you off, there are indeed
other viable Emacs-based options like mu4e and others, and
that's as it should be.

Gnus provides tradeoffs. The serious learning curve and the
need to code or adapt some elisp to make things do exactly
what you want are rewarded by--- a mail client that does
exactly what you want. The road is long, grasshopper, but the
rewards at the end can be great.

And it's worth repeating: this is not some sort of elitist
manifesto. I believe anyone capable of using Emacs is capable
of using gnus. The decision lies in whether you think it's
worth the effort, considering what your email needs and wants
might or might not be.

For me, gnus has become an essential tool. For you--- well,
that's up to you to decide!

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i
- Via Gnus/BBDB/Org/Emacs/Linux


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: gmail setup
  2020-04-08  1:53                       ` Bob Newell
@ 2020-04-10 16:56                         ` Alberto Luaces
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Alberto Luaces @ 2020-04-10 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Bob Newell writes:

> But then, if the complexity puts you off, there are indeed
> other viable Emacs-based options like mu4e and others, and
> that's as it should be.

Bob, I agree with you in everything you said except this: mu4e is not
simpler to configure, I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie.  It has many
good things, but setting it is as complex as setting nnmaildir.
Anecdotally, I personally find posting styles to be easier to setup than
mu4e's contexts.

I think that the complexity comparison comes from the fact that gnus can
do much more things than the other MUAs, but if you restrict the
comparison to the common ground they all share (being it mu4e, notmuch
or even mutt), they are not that different.

-- 
Alberto



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-04 14:33 how to forward a message that contains attachment Uwe Brauer
2020-04-04 14:54 ` Eric S Fraga
2020-04-04 18:57   ` Uwe Brauer
2020-04-05  2:00     ` Bob Newell
2020-04-05  6:07       ` Uwe Brauer
2020-04-05 19:31         ` Bob Newell
2020-04-05 13:18     ` Eric S Fraga
2020-04-05 17:11       ` Uwe Brauer
2020-04-05 17:37         ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-04-05 21:25           ` dick.r.chiang
2020-04-06 10:19             ` gmail setup (was: how to forward a message that contains attachment) Alberto Luaces
2020-04-07 16:42               ` gmail setup dick.r.chiang
2020-04-07 17:46                 ` Alberto Luaces
2020-04-07 18:19                   ` dick.r.chiang
2020-04-07 18:35                     ` Alberto Luaces
2020-04-08  1:53                       ` Bob Newell
2020-04-10 16:56                         ` Alberto Luaces
2020-04-06 10:19           ` how to forward a message that contains attachment Uwe Brauer
2020-04-06 10:26           ` Uwe Brauer
2020-04-07 17:03             ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-04-06 11:36           ` Uwe Brauer

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