From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/88776 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Proposed new introductory section to the Gnus manual Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:55:31 +0800 Message-ID: <87tv9ddk64.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87o90mm4x2.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87blwmuh6j.fsf@dick.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <87mug6klq3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87mug5bpuh.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87y2zojwbz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <871rxggj9l.fsf@gmail.com> <87d0g9q44t.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87a7bdelf4.fsf@gmail.com> <87tv9lmhzt.fsf@bobnewell.net> <875zm1w8sf.fsf@gmail.com> <87d0g8khcw.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87pnk7vr51.fsf@gmail.com> <87k1afiucn.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87d0g4k0z5.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="118956"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M36980@lists.math.uh.edu Mon Sep 16 05:00:26 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.208]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i9hFU-000Uif-5b for ding-account@gmane.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:00:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by lists1.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9hFN-0007Bo-LS; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:00:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by lists1.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9hFK-00079F-VL for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:00:11 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1i9hFJ-0003td-6z for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:00:10 -0500 Original-Received: from 195-159-176-226.customer.powertech.no ([195.159.176.226] helo=blaine.gmane.org) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i9hFF-0001yJ-No for ding@gnus.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:00:07 +0200 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i9hFC-000UTl-9u for ding@gnus.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 05:00:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Cancel-Lock: sha1:2J8pgwmGURWIepSwHCfA+xVdrtw= List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:88776 Archived-At: Bob Newell writes: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: >> >> A hindrance for users at any age :) There are whole aspects of Gnus >> (scoring, spam, agent categories, etc) that I have never touched, >> simply >> because I couldn't be bothered with the learning curve. > > As an old retiree myself --- even with 10 years experience with > Gnus-- there are aspects that I too haven't explored, scoring > being the most prominent among them. > > And yet my gnus startup file is over 1000 lines of elisp (maybe > half of it comment lines, but still) ... but that does > underscore the point that without at least some ability with > elisp, using gnus is probably not feasible. > > There might be a way to change that, but would a 'generic' gnus > miss the point? We use gnus because it's amazing and does crazy > stuff ... what other client would allow me (just as one small example) > to set my input method to French, German, or Hawaiian depending > on the addressee, let alone choose my smtp server based on a > similar criterion? (Certain people ALWAYS get email from my > preciously preserved AOL address!) > > The limitations of non-programmable clients show themselves > quickly. Even the more 'advanced' ones fall far short. Oh I definitely agree, and have no intention of reducing Gnus' user-facing complexity. But I think a bit more hand-holding for newbies couldn't hurt. It was truly frustrating in the beginning.