From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/66321 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Emacs unicode merge changes to Gnus Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:59:01 +0900 Message-ID: <87tzk9zxsq.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <61r6fqbyuv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871w7fvymc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203112817 566 80.91.229.12 (15 Feb 2008 22:00:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:00:17 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M14812@lists.math.uh.edu Fri Feb 15 23:00:40 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JQ8bO-0000t9-S4 for ding-account@gmane.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:00:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JQ8aR-0002Z9-BG; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:59:15 -0600 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JQ8aQ-0002Yq-1T for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:59:14 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JQ8aJ-00016O-Fv for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:59:13 -0600 Original-Received: from smtp11.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.73]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1JQ8aN-0006NL-00 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:59:11 +0100 Original-Received: from 203-216-97-023.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.97.23] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp11.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1JQ8aF-00006d-Av; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:59:03 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4C4B22FF7; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:59:01 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (Reiner Steib's message of "Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:30:04 +0100") Original-Lines: 47 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:66321 Archived-At: Reiner Steib writes: >>> What about (1) using the coding: cookie, (2) change the coding system >>> used to be utf-8 if possible (no binary), and utf-8-emacs otherwise. >>> >>> That should more or less work correctly except when people have binary >>> junk, and that should be very rare (right...?). >>> >>> I guess it won't work for some other cases, like someone with CJK text >>> who switches from Emacs 23 to Emacs 21, but ... > > Emacs 23 still has `emacs-mule' as coding system. Does it allow to > encode everything? If so, we might use `emacs-mule' instead of > `utf-8-emacs'. If not, we could recommend setting > `mm-auto-save-coding-system' to `emacs-mule' for those who want to use > Gnus in Emacs 23 and Emacs=C2=A021/22. Emacs 23 still supports emacs-mule (and AFAIK, it encodes "everything"), though in general I think it's better to move away from it when possible (utf-8 and utf-8-emacs are readable by other programs in non-binary cases, and by older versions in "many" cases). Regardless of what happens, it seems to me that Gnus should be writing the cookie, which makes future upgrades easier, and makes the file more self-describing. So there are really three independent questions (patch hunks :-): 1) Should gnus write the cookie? (obviously yes, I think) 2) Should Gnus stop forcing the coding system when it reads the file? (i.e., should Gnus let coding: do its job) 3) Should Gnus switch to utf-8-emacs as the default coding system for writing files? It seems like the safest thing, if you're worried about "back switchers" (as well as users of older Emacs versions using CVS Gnus) is to apply hunks (1) and (2) but not (3); that should at least set things up for an easier switch to utf-8 in the future when it's deemed more acceptable. -Miles --=20 Sabbath, n. A weekly festival having its origin in the fact that God made t= he world in six days and was arrested on the seventh.