Date timer in Gnus article buffers

Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Chong Yidong]

Does the Date: field in the article buffer really need to show the time
elapsed down to the number of seconds?  I find it hard to imagine that
anyone needs this information down to the number of seconds, and the
constant updating is distracting.

No other mail or news program that I'm aware of does this.  I'd suggest
suppressing the number of seconds---at the very least if more than one
minute has elapsed.

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[lee]

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

> Does the Date: field in the article buffer really need to show the time
> elapsed down to the number of seconds?
> [...]
> I'd suggest suppressing the number of seconds---at the very least if
> more than one minute has elapsed.

Is it so distracting to see the seconds? The problem I'm seeing with the
Date: header is that it shows the date as set by the sender of the
message. When someone has their date/time set incorrectly, like 5 hours
in the future, and when sorting the summary by date, this screws up the
sorting order.

An alternative is to sort by Received: headers --- mutt does something
like that very nicely. I don't know exactly how mutt does it. A rule
like "if the Date: header has a date that's in the future, use the
Received: header for sorting and in the summary view" would be useful.

Perhaps it's possible to make gnus insert the date from the Received:
header as an additional header and use that for sorting and for
displaying the headers of a message instead (or in addition to) the
Date: header. I'd call such a header X-Gnus-Rdate:.

If you were to use such a X-Gnus-Rdate: header, you could make it so
that it doesn't show the seconds if you don't want to see them :)
Personally, I don't care much about the Date: header because I have no
way of knowing if the date was set correctly, so I'd use the
X-Gnus-Rdate: header instead. I wish I knew gnus well enough to make it
so ...

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

> Does the Date: field in the article buffer really need to show the time
> elapsed down to the number of seconds? 

No.  It's mainly that way to root out problems with buffer movement when
the contents change.  If it updates once a minute, it makes glitches
appear totally incomprehensible, while when it happens every second,
it's clear what the culprit is.

But I think we've now covered all the problems associated with updating
the buffer from a timer (there hasn't been a bug report in this area for
at least a month, I think), so it's probably time to switch the default
to not show the seconds.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Tassilo Horn]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Hi!

>> Does the Date: field in the article buffer really need to show the
>> time elapsed down to the number of seconds?
>
> No.  It's mainly that way to root out problems with buffer movement
> when the contents change.  If it updates once a minute, it makes
> glitches appear totally incomprehensible, while when it happens every
> second, it's clear what the culprit is.
>
> But I think we've now covered all the problems associated with
> updating the buffer from a timer (there hasn't been a bug report in
> this area for at least a month, I think), so it's probably time to
> switch the default to not show the seconds.

Oh, I still have the problem that killing from an article buffer
frequently kills the wrong text (Date: until beginnig of my region, or
beginnig of message till Date:).  In that case, I have to yank twice to
get my region.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, Jun 30 2011, Tassilo Horn wrote:

> Oh, I still have the problem that killing from an article buffer
> frequently kills the wrong text (Date: until beginnig of my region, or
> beginnig of message till Date:).  In that case, I have to yank twice to
> get my region.

Perhaps related:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/78968

-- 
           Peter

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Jun 30 2011, Tassilo Horn wrote:

> Oh, I still have the problem that killing from an article buffer
> frequently kills the wrong text (Date: until beginnig of my region, or
> beginnig of message till Date:).  In that case, I have to yank twice to
> get my region.

Yes this problem still exists, I do confirm. It's even 100% reproducible
if you wait 1 second (the max time needed for the date to change that
is :-).

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Yes this problem still exists, I do confirm. It's even 100% reproducible
> if you wait 1 second (the max time needed for the date to change that
> is :-).

Do you still see this if you have:

(setq mouse-drag-copy-region t
      x-select-enable-primary t
      x-select-enable-clipboard nil)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Jun 30 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Do you still see this if you have:
>
> (setq mouse-drag-copy-region t
>       x-select-enable-primary t
>       x-select-enable-clipboard nil)

Just eval'd that, tested and the bug does not change a yotta.

It's easy to reproduce: go in the message's body, do C-SPC, move to
select text, wait 2 seconds, press M-w, go to *scratch*, press C-y:
fails. Press M-y: now it's ok. :)

(If you can find an old message from me about this thread/issue, I did
some digging weeks back and pin-pointed the code line that was the
culprit. But I don't remember it right now.)

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Peter Münster]

On Thu, Jun 30 2011, Julien Danjou wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 30 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>
>> Do you still see this if you have:
>>
>> (setq mouse-drag-copy-region t
>>       x-select-enable-primary t
>>       x-select-enable-clipboard nil)
>
> Just eval'd that, tested and the bug does not change a yotta.

You missed the
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq select-active-regions nil)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
as mentioned here:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/78968

-- 
           Peter

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

pmlists@free.fr (Peter Münster) writes:

> You missed the
> (setq select-active-regions nil)

Yup.

(setq select-active-regions nil
      mouse-drag-copy-region t
      x-select-enable-primary t
      x-select-enable-clipboard nil)

is what I have in my ~/.emacs.  Any other combinations of settings seem
to produce odd effects here and there.      
      
-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Jun 30 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

>> You missed the
>> (setq select-active-regions nil)
>
> Yup.
>
> (setq select-active-regions nil
>       mouse-drag-copy-region t
>       x-select-enable-primary t
>       x-select-enable-clipboard nil)
>
> is what I have in my ~/.emacs.  Any other combinations of settings seem
> to produce odd effects here and there.      

Ah yes, with that it works fine indeed.

Except that I don't want these settings. :-(

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Except that I don't want these settings. :-(

Perhaps there's a different combination of those four variables that
also will work, but do what you want?  It's all too complicated for me.
People on emacs-devel probably knows.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Julien Danjou]

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On Fri, Jul 01 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Perhaps there's a different combination of those four variables that
> also will work, but do what you want?  It's all too complicated for me.
> People on emacs-devel probably knows.  :-)

Maybe but I'd prefer spend time fixing the bug, wouldn't you? :)

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Maybe but I'd prefer spend time fixing the bug, wouldn't you? :)

I brought this up several times on the emacs-devel list, and it was
claimed that there was no bug, just an inconsistent setting of those
four variables.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Julien Danjou]

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On Fri, Jul 01 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:
>
>> Maybe but I'd prefer spend time fixing the bug, wouldn't you? :)
>
> I brought this up several times on the emacs-devel list, and it was
> claimed that there was no bug, just an inconsistent setting of those
> four variables.

Oh, I missed that thread, do you have a pointer ? :(

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: Date timer in Gnus article buffers

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Oh, I missed that thread, do you have a pointer ? :(

Sorry; but if you search for the variable names and my name on the
emacs-devel list, it should probably pop up somewhere...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/