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* Aliases with mailing lists
@ 2021-12-03  1:07 Bob Newell
  2021-12-03 17:43 ` Bob Newell
  2021-12-03 18:12 ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2021-12-03  1:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Aloha,

I use aliases and set up gnus-alias-identity-rules to select
certain identities when mailing to or from certain addresses,
and when I do tab completion on an email address, the correct
identity naturally gets chosen as expected.

However, when I have a mailing list, and press space to expand
the mailing list, a different mechanism, namely abbrevs, is
used. So there is no identity selection based on the members
of the mailing list.

I'm trying to make this work to select identity, and have been
trying hacks in mailabbrev.el, where the action seems to take
place in mail-abbrev-expand-wrapper. I think I might be able
to get it to work, but the real question is, should this be
built-in to gnus somehow?

(I realize there is an issue with possible multiple
matches. But that issue already exists when doing a wide
reply, and it seems that the first rule to match wins the
battle.)

Mahalo in advance,

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03  1:07 Aliases with mailing lists Bob Newell
@ 2021-12-03 17:43 ` Bob Newell
  2021-12-03 18:43   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-03 18:12 ` Emanuel Berg
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2021-12-03 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

>
> However, when I have a mailing list, and press space to expand
> the mailing list, a different mechanism, namely abbrevs, is
> used. So there is no identity selection based on the members
> of the mailing list.
>
> I'm trying to make this work to select identity, and have been
> trying hacks in mailabbrev.el, where the action seems to take
> place in mail-abbrev-expand-wrapper. I think I might be able
> to get it to work, but the real question is, should this be
> built-in to gnus somehow?

Well ... I did get this to work in an embarrassingly hackish
manner, which I'm too ashamed to post but will share with
anyone who has the same obscure issue.

In any case hacking mailabbrev.el, which is not part of Gnus,
might be out of scope for this mailing list. Certainly,
putting Gnus specific code into mailabbrev.el, which is what I
did, is unacceptable for general use.

I'm still seeking a way to do this within Gnus, where it
belongs, but it looks to be non-trivial for someone at my
admittedly non-stellar skill level.

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03  1:07 Aliases with mailing lists Bob Newell
  2021-12-03 17:43 ` Bob Newell
@ 2021-12-03 18:12 ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-05 12:42   ` Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-03 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Bob Newell wrote:

> I use aliases and set up gnus-alias-identity-rules to select
> certain identities when mailing to or from certain
> addresses, and when I do tab completion on an email address,
> the correct identity naturally gets chosen as expected.
>
> However, when I have a mailing list, and press space to
> expand the mailing list, a different mechanism, namely
> abbrevs, is used [...]

What do you mean, when I have a mailing list? Isn't a mailing
list also just a certain address? Not following ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 17:43 ` Bob Newell
@ 2021-12-03 18:43   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-03 20:45     ` Emanuel Berg
                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2021-12-03 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Bob Newell <bobnewell@bobnewell.net> writes:

>>
>> However, when I have a mailing list, and press space to expand
>> the mailing list, a different mechanism, namely abbrevs, is
>> used. So there is no identity selection based on the members
>> of the mailing list.
>>
>> I'm trying to make this work to select identity, and have been
>> trying hacks in mailabbrev.el, where the action seems to take
>> place in mail-abbrev-expand-wrapper. I think I might be able
>> to get it to work, but the real question is, should this be
>> built-in to gnus somehow?
>
> Well ... I did get this to work in an embarrassingly hackish
> manner, which I'm too ashamed to post but will share with
> anyone who has the same obscure issue.
>
> In any case hacking mailabbrev.el, which is not part of Gnus,
> might be out of scope for this mailing list. Certainly,
> putting Gnus specific code into mailabbrev.el, which is what I
> did, is unacceptable for general use.
>
> I'm still seeking a way to do this within Gnus, where it
> belongs, but it looks to be non-trivial for someone at my
> admittedly non-stellar skill level.

Completion in message-mode has always been weird, and it's gotten
temporarily weirder as someone (I assume Stefan) has started nudging it
over to use Emacs' standard completion mechanisms.

I'm also a little unclear of what situation you're seeing exactly: do
you mean that expanding names in the "To/From/Cc" headers triggers an
alias switch, but expanding group names in the "Newsgroups" header
doesn't? But the only place `expand-abbrev' is used in header completion
is in the "To/From/Cc" header, so I don't really understand how the two
situations differ.

I also don't know what hook gnus-alias uses to do its alias switching;
if we knew that then this would be easier.

If your Emacs is recent and you have the option
`message-expand-name-standard-ui', try setting it to t and see what that
does.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 18:43   ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2021-12-03 20:45     ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-04 12:57       ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2021-12-03 21:28     ` Bob Newell
  2021-12-05 11:42     ` Eric S Fraga
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-03 20:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> I'm also a little unclear of what situation you're seeing
> exactly: do you mean that expanding names in the
> "To/From/Cc" headers triggers an alias switch, but expanding
> group names in the "Newsgroups" header doesn't? But the only
> place `expand-abbrev' is used in header completion is in the
> "To/From/Cc" header, so I don't really understand how the
> two situations differ.

Isn't it from ~/.mailrc in those and in the abbrev-table with
the Newsgroups?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 18:43   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-03 20:45     ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-03 21:28     ` Bob Newell
  2021-12-03 22:21       ` Bob Newell
  2021-12-05 11:42     ` Eric S Fraga
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2021-12-03 21:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> I'm also a little unclear of what situation you're seeing exactly: do
> you mean that expanding names in the "To/From/Cc" headers triggers an
> alias switch, but expanding group names in the "Newsgroups" header
> doesn't? But the only place `expand-abbrev' is used in header completion
> is in the "To/From/Cc" header, so I don't really understand how the two
> situations differ.

I think I inadvertently left out an important piece of
information. BBDB is in use here. I create my own mailing
lists using the 'mail-alias' BBDB field.

The problem comes up when I enter a BBDB defined mail-alias in
the To: field and press the spacebar to expand that into the
full list of BBDB addresses that have the mail-alias in
question. The list appears, of course, but
gnu-alias-determine-identity doesn't run, and so my From:
address (etc.) isn't altered, when in fact based on one or more of
the mail-alias entries, I may want it changed in accord with
my gnus alias rules.

The BBDB mail-alias expansion takes place in
mail-abbrev-expand-wrapper in mailabbrevs.el which is not part
of Gnus. That's where I did some horribly shameful hacking.

Everything is fine with simple tab completion of a
(non-mail-alias) regular email address in the To: field.

> I also don't know what hook gnus-alias uses to do its alias switching;
> if we knew that then this would be easier.

This happens with tab completion with the following line of code:

(add-hook 'bbdb-complete-mail-hook 'gnus-alias-determine-identity)

However this mechanism isn't used with mail-alias expansion.

> If your Emacs is recent and you have the option
> `message-expand-name-standard-ui', try setting it to t and see what that
> does.

I'll look into it. Thank you for your reply.

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 21:28     ` Bob Newell
@ 2021-12-03 22:21       ` Bob Newell
  2021-12-04  0:38         ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Bob Newell @ 2021-12-03 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding


> I think I inadvertently left out an important piece of
> information. BBDB is in use here. I create my own mailing
> lists using the 'mail-alias' BBDB field.

Well, this got me to thinking that there ought to be a BBDB
hook for what I want. There is, and here's the easy solution.

(setq bbdb-mail-abbrev-expand-hook
      (lambda (arg1 arg2)
	(gnus-alias-determine-identity)))

A BBDB mail-alias is now properly expanded (when pressing
spacebar) and the correct gnus alias is used.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. Yes, an obscure need!

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 22:21       ` Bob Newell
@ 2021-12-04  0:38         ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2021-12-04  0:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Bob Newell <bobnewell@bobnewell.net> writes:

>> I think I inadvertently left out an important piece of
>> information. BBDB is in use here. I create my own mailing
>> lists using the 'mail-alias' BBDB field.
>
> Well, this got me to thinking that there ought to be a BBDB
> hook for what I want. There is, and here's the easy solution.
>
> (setq bbdb-mail-abbrev-expand-hook
>       (lambda (arg1 arg2)
> 	(gnus-alias-determine-identity)))
>
> A BBDB mail-alias is now properly expanded (when pressing
> spacebar) and the correct gnus alias is used.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their comments. Yes, an obscure need!

Huzzah!



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 20:45     ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-04 12:57       ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2021-12-04 13:17         ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2021-12-04 12:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

Hellow Emanuel!

> Isn't it from ~/.mailrc in those and in the abbrev-table with
> the Newsgroups?

Also i use ~/.mailrc, Not Newsgroups. Only personal addresses.

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-04 12:57       ` Byung-Hee HWANG
@ 2021-12-04 13:17         ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-05 12:19           ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-04 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

>> Isn't it from ~/.mailrc in those and in the abbrev-table
>> with the Newsgroups?
>
> Also i use ~/.mailrc, Not Newsgroups. Only personal addresses.

What do you say, "great minds think alike"!

;)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 18:43   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-03 20:45     ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-03 21:28     ` Bob Newell
@ 2021-12-05 11:42     ` Eric S Fraga
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-05 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Friday,  3 Dec 2021 at 10:43, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> If your Emacs is recent and you have the option
> `message-expand-name-standard-ui', try setting it to t and see what that
> does.

I am trying this out (having been using bbdb-handy up to now).  I cannot
quite figure out what it is doing.  I use bbdb as my address book.  Mail
aliases from bbdb work just fine (typing "somealias SPC") but tab
completion is strange.  It works, in the sense that if I type "somename
TAB", I get a completion list.  However, it is unclear where the
contents of this list are coming from.

TAB is bound to message-tab which then invokes message-expand-name which
should be checking bbdb but it does not appear to (or is missing many
entries from bbdb).

Any pointers or clarifications would be welcome.

Thank you,
eric

PS - sorry if I have hijacked the thread; happy to start a new one if
     desired.

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-04 13:17         ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-05 12:19           ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2021-12-05 18:15             ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2021-12-05 12:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
>
>>> Isn't it from ~/.mailrc in those and in the abbrev-table
>>> with the Newsgroups?
>>
>> Also i use ~/.mailrc, Not Newsgroups. Only personal addresses.
>
> What do you say, "great minds think alike"!

Sorry man Emanuel, i should study more English!

Thanks, Gnus fan Byung-Hee 

-- 
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-03 18:12 ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-05 12:42   ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-05 18:12     ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-05 12:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Friday,  3 Dec 2021 at 19:12, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> What do you mean, when I have a mailing list? Isn't a mailing
> list also just a certain address? Not following ...

In bbdb, all entries that have a common alias, e.g. "myresearchgroup",
are considered a /mailing list/.  This is a list for emails that is made
up of individual entries as opposed to a single address run by some
server.  Typing myresearchgroup SPC in the To: field will expand to a
list of email addresses, all of those that have that term as an alias.

HTH,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 12:42   ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2021-12-05 18:12     ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-05 20:42       ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-05 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric S Fraga wrote:

>> What do you mean, when I have a mailing list?
>> Isn't a mailing list also just a certain address?
>> Not following ...
>
> In bbdb, all entries that have a common alias, e.g.
> "myresearchgroup", are considered a /mailing list/. This is
> a list for emails that is made up of individual entries as
> opposed to a single address run by some server.
> Typing myresearchgroup SPC in the To: field will expand to
> a list of email addresses, all of those that have that term
> as an alias.

OK, I didn't even know this discussion was about bbdb ...

Hm ... maybe one should change message-mode so that ~/.mailrc
aliases are expanded in the Newsgroups and Followup-To headers
as well?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 12:19           ` Byung-Hee HWANG
@ 2021-12-05 18:15             ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-06  4:56               ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-05 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

>>>> Isn't it from ~/.mailrc in those and in the abbrev-table
>>>> with the Newsgroups?
>>>
>>> Also i use ~/.mailrc, Not Newsgroups.
>>> Only personal addresses.
>>
>> What do you say, "great minds think alike"!
>
> Sorry man Emanuel, i should study more English!

It is an expression used when two people do the same thing or
suggest the same thing, I guess it was originally used for
like two brilliant astronomers or something reaching the same
conclusion from two different observatories on the face of the
Earth, but it can also be used jokingly (more often) when the
suggestion is perhaps somewhat less astounding ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 18:12     ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-05 20:42       ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-05 21:30         ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-05 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Sunday,  5 Dec 2021 at 19:12, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> OK, I didn't even know this discussion was about bbdb ...

The same applies to .mailrc mailing list definitions; I shouldn't have
limited my response to BBDB.  Sorry.

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 20:42       ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2021-12-05 21:30         ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-05 22:07           ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-06 11:05           ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-05 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric S Fraga wrote:

>> OK, I didn't even know this discussion was about bbdb ...
>
> The same applies to .mailrc mailing list definitions;
> I shouldn't have limited my response to BBDB. Sorry.

Uhm ... what applies?

As a mailing list, this is ding@gnus.org so you can do in
~/.mailrc

  alias ding "ding <ding@gnus.org>

and use that in the To: header (and others).

As a newsgroup (the Newsgroups: and Followup-To: headers) it
is gmane.emacs.gnus.general tho which won't expand there, one
way is then to do for example

  ;;; (kill-all-abbrevs)
  (let ((write '(("ding"      "gmane.emacs.gnus.general")
                 ;; ... )))
    (define-abbrev-table 'global-abbrev-table write ))

but optimally one would want to do that in mailrc as well IMO.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 21:30         ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-05 22:07           ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-06  2:29             ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-06 11:05           ` Emanuel Berg
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-05 22:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Sunday,  5 Dec 2021 at 22:30, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Uhm ... what applies?

This was in reference to your earlier post when you said that a mailing
list is just a certain address.  That's true for ding, for instance, but
with .mailrc (and bbdb as well), you can define your own personal
mailing lists that consist of a list of individual email addresses.

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 22:07           ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2021-12-06  2:29             ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-06  2:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric S Fraga wrote:

> This was in reference to your earlier post when you said
> that a mailing list is just a certain address. That's true
> for ding, for instance, but with .mailrc (and bbdb as well),
> you can define your own personal mailing lists that consist
> of a list of individual email addresses.

I know?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 18:15             ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-06  4:56               ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2021-12-06  5:37                 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2021-12-06  4:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
>
>>>>> Isn't it from ~/.mailrc in those and in the abbrev-table
>>>>> with the Newsgroups?
>>>>
>>>> Also i use ~/.mailrc, Not Newsgroups.
>>>> Only personal addresses.
>>>
>>> What do you say, "great minds think alike"!
>>
>> Sorry man Emanuel, i should study more English!
>
> It is an expression used when two people do the same thing or
> suggest the same thing, I guess it was originally used for
> like two brilliant astronomers or something reaching the same
> conclusion from two different observatories on the face of the
> Earth, but it can also be used jokingly (more often) when the
> suggestion is perhaps somewhat less astounding ...

Thanks! Emanul ^^^

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-06  4:56               ` Byung-Hee HWANG
@ 2021-12-06  5:37                 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2021-12-06  5:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

> Thanks! Emanul ^^^

(Sorry, i did type misspel)

Thanks! Emanuel ^^^

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-05 21:30         ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-05 22:07           ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2021-12-06 11:05           ` Emanuel Berg
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-06 11:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

> As a newsgroup (the Newsgroups: and Followup-To: headers) it
> is gmane.emacs.gnus.general tho which won't expand
> there [...] but optimally one would want to do that in
> mailrc as well IMO

I think one can do it by adding these headers to
`mail-abbrev-mode-regexp', 

  Its value is "^\\(Resent-\\)?\\(To\\|From\\|Cc\\|Bcc\\|Reply-To\\):"

  Regexp matching mail headers in which mail abbrevs should be
  expanded. This string will be handed to ‘looking-at’ with
  point at the beginning of the current line; if it matches,
  abbrev mode will be turned on, otherwise it will be turned
  off. (You don’t need to worry about continuation lines.)
  This should be set to match those mail fields in which you
  want abbreviations turned on.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-08 17:46   ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2021-12-09 16:59     ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-09 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

On Wednesday,  8 Dec 2021 at 09:46, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> But `bbdb-search-name' returns actual BBDB records, right? Not mail
> completion strings? 

Yes, indeed but my point was that the records returned for a given
search string was a more comprehensive list than returned by either of
the other two methods.

> I don't know `bbdb-complete-mail' well enough to say exactly why the
> results vary, but at the very least `bbdb-complete-mail' will allow
> you to complete on email addresses, not just record names, which seems
> desirable.

Doesn't seem to be working for me.  I only get a subset of what I would
expect.  Very strange.  I will continue to play with this when I have
time.

And I will post on other more appropriate lists as this is not really a
gnus problem.

Thank you,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-07 12:41 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2021-12-08 17:46   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-09 16:59     ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2021-12-08 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Eric,
>
> Very strange: I get different outcomes with bbdb-complete-mail,
> message--bbdb-query-with-words, and message-tab directly.  And none of
> the outcomes corresponds to what I get with bbdb-search-name.
>
> I would like what bbdb-search-name returns... any idea how I can achieve
> this?

But `bbdb-search-name' returns actual BBDB records, right? Not mail
completion strings? I don't know `bbdb-complete-mail' well enough to say
exactly why the results vary, but at the very least `bbdb-complete-mail'
will allow you to complete on email addresses, not just record names,
which seems desirable.

You could potentially write a wrapper function that uses
`bbdb-search-name' to find records, and then mapcans `bbdb-dwim-mail'
over each record's mail addresses, and returns the result as a list of
strings. Then you'd have to force message-tab completion to use your
function.

The nuclear approach I take in EBDB is:

(cl-pushnew '("^\\(Resent-\\)?\\(To\\|B?Cc\\|Reply-To\\|From\\|Mail-Followup-To\\|Mail-Copies-To\\):" . ebdb-complete-mail)
  		 message-completion-alist
  		 :test #'equal)

You could put your own in there. 

> Ideally, what would be good is a name/email search based on Emacs's own
> completion engine (allowing for selectrum, helm, ivy, ...).
>
> thank you,
> eric
>
> PS -I guess this is not really a gnus topic; it's more about
> message-mode and maybe should be on emacs.help?

I'd actually raise this on the BBDB list: as message-mode continues to
provide for more "standard" completion behavior, BBDB should probably
provide new functions to match that. There's a code comment in
message.el to the effect that `message--bbdb-query-with-words' actually
belongs in BBDB. Maybe they'll have some opinions about this.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-06 17:53 Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-06 18:40 ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-07 11:22 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2021-12-07 12:41 ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-08 17:46   ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-07 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric,

Very strange: I get different outcomes with bbdb-complete-mail,
message--bbdb-query-with-words, and message-tab directly.  And none of
the outcomes corresponds to what I get with bbdb-search-name.

I would like what bbdb-search-name returns... any idea how I can achieve
this?

Ideally, what would be good is a name/email search based on Emacs's own
completion engine (allowing for selectrum, helm, ivy, ...).

thank you,
eric

PS -I guess this is not really a gnus topic; it's more about
message-mode and maybe should be on emacs.help?

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-06 17:53 Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-06 18:40 ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-07 11:22 ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-07 12:41 ` Eric S Fraga
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2021-12-07 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Hi Eric,

I wasn't trying to call your bluff. 😉

Thanks for the explanation.  I will have to explore more to see why
message-tab (and the resulting chain or function evaluations) doesn't
actually give me all the entries it should.  I don't think I have any
strange configuration for bbdb, in particular, but maybe I do.

What I do know is that the results returned by hitting TAB in the To:
header line differ significantly from what I would get from a simple
bbdb search.  The former is often a very short list, and typically
missing the person I was looking for, whereas the latter is often much
longer than I would like.

I will look into `message--bbdb-query-with-words' and
`bbdb-complete-name' to see how they differ.

Thanks again,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga with org 9.5.1 in Emacs 29.0.50 on Debian 11.1



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-06 18:40 ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2021-12-06 18:46   ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-06 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

> (setq mail-abbrev-mode-regexp
>       "^\\(\\(Newsgroups\\|Followup-To:\\)\\|\\(Resent-\\)?\\(To\\|From\\|Cc\\|Bcc\\|Reply-To\\)\\):")

Then in ~/.mailrc

alias ged "gmane.emacs.devel"
alias geh "gmane.emacs.help"
alias gew "gmane.emacs.w3m"

works.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
  2021-12-06 17:53 Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2021-12-06 18:40 ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-06 18:46   ` Emanuel Berg
  2021-12-07 11:22 ` Eric S Fraga
  2021-12-07 12:41 ` Eric S Fraga
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2021-12-06 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

(setq mail-abbrev-mode-regexp
      "^\\(\\(Newsgroups\\|Followup-To:\\)\\|\\(Resent-\\)?\\(To\\|From\\|Cc\\|Bcc\\|Reply-To\\)\\):")

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Aliases with mailing lists
@ 2021-12-06 17:53 Eric Abrahamsen
  2021-12-06 18:40 ` Emanuel Berg
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2021-12-06 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Friday,  3 Dec 2021 at 10:43, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>> If your Emacs is recent and you have the option
>> `message-expand-name-standard-ui', try setting it to t and see what that
>> does.
>
> I am trying this out (having been using bbdb-handy up to now).  I cannot
> quite figure out what it is doing.  I use bbdb as my address book.  Mail
> aliases from bbdb work just fine (typing "somealias SPC") but tab
> completion is strange.  It works, in the sense that if I type "somename
> TAB", I get a completion list.  However, it is unclear where the
> contents of this list are coming from.
>
> TAB is bound to message-tab which then invokes message-expand-name which
> should be checking bbdb but it does not appear to (or is missing many
> entries from bbdb).
>
> Any pointers or clarifications would be welcome.

Ha, you sort of called my bluff here, I hadn't looked closely at what
that option is actually doing. Basically, in a perfect world, <TAB> in a
name/group header would call `completion-at-point' directly. Programs
that want to provide names and addresses for completion would push their
tables onto `completion-at-point-functions'. The nice thing about this
is that there are several user options that would govern how completion
works (giving you more control), and also multiple backends can put
their tables in, meaning that you could cycle through completions that
come from various packages.

At present things have gotten fairly convoluted. If you set
`message-expand-name-standard-ui' to t, what happens is: `message-tab'
calls `completion-at-point', which finds `message-completion-function'
and calls that, which sees that we're in a "To:" header and ends up
calling `message-expand-name'. `message-expand-name' sees that
`message-expand-name-standard-ui' is t, and returns the standard set of
capf data, including `message--name-table' as the completion table. This
table simply does what `message-expand-name' otherwise does directly:
checks if we're using eudc or bbdb (*EBDB maintainer wipes away a
tear*), and calls `message--bbdb-query-with-words' which, god willing
and the creek don't rise, ends up with the same result as if
`message-expand-name-standard-ui' were nil, and we'd called
`bbdb-complete-name'.

Apologies if that's more detail than you wanted; I'm also trying to make
sense of this myself.

The point being, it *ought* to behave the same way, just with
(potentially) more completion candidates from multiple backends, and
more user control over the completion style. If you're seeing wrong
completions from BBDB, that means that `message--bbdb-query-with-words'
is not doing the same job as `bbdb-complete-name', and that should be
considered a bug, I guess.

Whew.

Eric



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-12-09 16:59 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-12-03  1:07 Aliases with mailing lists Bob Newell
2021-12-03 17:43 ` Bob Newell
2021-12-03 18:43   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2021-12-03 20:45     ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-04 12:57       ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2021-12-04 13:17         ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-05 12:19           ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2021-12-05 18:15             ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-06  4:56               ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2021-12-06  5:37                 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2021-12-03 21:28     ` Bob Newell
2021-12-03 22:21       ` Bob Newell
2021-12-04  0:38         ` Eric Abrahamsen
2021-12-05 11:42     ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-03 18:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-05 12:42   ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-05 18:12     ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-05 20:42       ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-05 21:30         ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-05 22:07           ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-06  2:29             ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-06 11:05           ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-06 17:53 Eric Abrahamsen
2021-12-06 18:40 ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-06 18:46   ` Emanuel Berg
2021-12-07 11:22 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-07 12:41 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-08 17:46   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2021-12-09 16:59     ` Eric S Fraga

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