Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Reiner Steib]

Hi,

in Emacs, `C-c [letter]' is reserved for users (the user may also use
it as a prefix: `C-c a a', `C-c a b', ...).

In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
(only `v' and `y', AFAICS).  IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
standard Gnus bindings.  I'd vote for `v'.  Opinions?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Glyn Millington]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> Hi,
>
> in Emacs, `C-c [letter]' is reserved for users (the user may also use
> it as a prefix: `C-c a a', `C-c a b', ...).
>
> In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
> buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
> (only `v' and `y', AFAICS).  IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
> these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
> standard Gnus bindings.  I'd vote for `v'.


y not!


atb



Glyn

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Jan 25 2006, Reiner Steib wrote:

> in Emacs, `C-c [letter]' is reserved for users (the user may also use
> it as a prefix: `C-c a a', `C-c a b', ...).
>
> In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
> buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
> (only `v' and `y', AFAICS).  IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
> these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
> standard Gnus bindings.  I'd vote for `v'.  Opinions?

I'll install the following change to trunk and v5-10 (please suggest
better wording or other improvements):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
--- gnus.texi	07 Apr 2006 14:43:53 +0200	6.603.2.80
+++ gnus.texi	09 Apr 2006 14:31:05 +0200	
@@ -4043,6 +4043,22 @@
 
 @table @kbd
 
+@item v
+@kindex v (Group)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Group)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users.  You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key.  For example:
+
+@lisp
+(define-key gnus-group-mode-map (kbd "v j d")
+  (lambda ()
+    (interactive)
+    (gnus-group-jump-to-group "nndraft:drafts")))
+@end lisp
+
+On keys reserved for users in Emacs and on keybindings in general
+@xref{Keymaps, Keymaps, , emacs, The Emacs Editor}.
+
 @item ^
 @kindex ^ (Group)
 @findex gnus-group-enter-server-mode
@@ -4438,6 +4454,14 @@
 
 You can have as many summary buffers open as you wish.
 
+@kindex v (Summary)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Summary)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users.  You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key.  For example:
+@lisp
+(define-key gnus-summary-mode-map (kbd "v -") "LrS") ;; lower subthread
+@end lisp
+
 @menu
 * Summary Buffer Format::       Deciding how the summary buffer is to look.
 * Summary Maneuvering::         Moving around the summary buffer.
@@ -11242,6 +11266,11 @@
 buffer displayed while reading.  You can do it all from the article
 buffer.
 
+@kindex v (Article)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Article)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users.  You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key.
+
 A few additional keystrokes are available:
 
 @table @kbd
@@ -12272,6 +12301,12 @@
 
 @table @kbd
 
+@item v
+@kindex v (Server)
+@cindex keys, reserved for users (Server)
+The key @kbd{v} is reserved for users.  You can bind it key to some
+function or better use it as a prefix key.
+
 @item a
 @kindex a (Server)
 @findex gnus-server-add-server
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> In the most important Gnus modes like group, summary and article
> buffers, there are only very few unbound single lowercase letter keys
> (only `v' and `y', AFAICS).  IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of
> these keys as "reserved for users" to avoid that users override
> standard Gnus bindings.  I'd vote for `v'.  Opinions?

I rebind standard bindings all the time if the binding is something I
don't use, so I don't really see the point.  Has there been any
requests for a reserved user-defined key?  I mean, one key is just,
er, so little.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Apr 12 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> IMHO, it would be nice to declare one of these keys as "reserved
>> for users" to avoid that users override standard Gnus bindings.
>> I'd vote for `v'.  Opinions?
>
> I rebind standard bindings all the time if the binding is something I
> don't use, so I don't really see the point.  

I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users.  The main
point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
The rationale is the same as for `C-c [letter]' and <F5>-<F9> in
Emacs:

,----[ (info "(emacs)Keymaps") ]
|    As a user, you can redefine any key; but it is usually best to stick
| to key sequences that consist of `C-c' followed by a letter.  These
| keys are "reserved for users," so they won't conflict with any properly
| designed Emacs extension.  The function keys <F5> through <F9> are also
| reserved for users.  If you redefine some other key, your definition
| may be overridden by certain extensions or major modes which redefine
| the same key.
`----

> Has there been any requests for a reserved user-defined key?  I
> mean, one key is just, er, so little.  :-)

User often wrote something like "I hit `w' and then Gnus will ..."
and later it turned out that `w' isn't stop-page-breaking but some
combination of `W q' and `W w'.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users.  The main
> point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.

True, but do we want to?  It's the final unused key (I'm not counting
`y', which would be a bad idea to bind, since users have a tendency to
lean on `y' when being asked questions), and we may want to use it for
something new and spiffy we invent at some point.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Miles Bader]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>> I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users.  The main
>> point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
>
> True, but do we want to?  It's the final unused key (I'm not counting
> `y', which would be a bad idea to bind, since users have a tendency to
> lean on `y' when being asked questions), and we may want to use it for
> something new and spiffy we invent at some point.

I dunno about you, but I've already bound "v" myself in Gnus...

[To a command that toggles a variable-pitch font in the *Article*
buffer]

-Miles
-- 
80% of success is just showing up.  --Woody Allen

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Apr 13 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> I do the same, but I wouldn't recommend it to novice users.  The main
>> point is that we can guarantee that Gnus won't bind `v' in the future.
>
> True, but do we want to?  It's the final unused key [...],

`v' is the only one (beside `y') that is left in all important Gnus
modes (group, summary, server).  There are still some lower case
letters left in group mode.  In summary only v, y and z.

> and we may want to use it for something new and spiffy we invent at
> some point.

If it's so spiffy, we could get rid of some duplicate binding (most of
the single letter keys still have a binding in some other map) of a
less spiffy feature¹.  Reserving `v' gives the user the possibility to
bind feature important to him/her to simple key such as `v a' ... `v
z'.

Bye, Reiner.

¹ E.g., I can't recall that I ever used these summary keys either
  because I only remember some other binding (b - K v, u - !) or
  because I never used the command (i, w).

  b   gnus-article-view-part
  i   gnus-summary-news-other-window
  u   gnus-summary-tick-article-forward
  w   gnus-summary-stop-page-breaking
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> `v' is the only one (beside `y') that is left in all important Gnus
> modes (group, summary, server).  There are still some lower case
> letters left in group mode.  In summary only v, y and z.

`z' unused in the summary buffer?  What an oversight.  :-)

> ¹ E.g., I can't recall that I ever used these summary keys either
>   because I only remember some other binding (b - K v, u - !) or
>   because I never used the command (i, w).

I use `u'.  I'm sure there's someone one there using any of the
bindings that exist.  (I'm guessing `i' and `w' are left over from
GNUS 4.1...)

Here's an idea: How about if we unbind a couple of the blatantly silly
single-letter bindings in the summary buffer now (`i' and `w' being
excellent candidates) so that we can bind them at a later point (say,
a few years) to more exciting commands?  In that case I would have no
reservations about handing the `v' over to the users. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Miles Bader]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> ¹ E.g., I can't recall that I ever used these summary keys either
>   because I only remember some other binding (b - K v, u - !) or
>   because I never used the command (i, w).
>
>   b   gnus-article-view-part
>   i   gnus-summary-news-other-window
>   u   gnus-summary-tick-article-forward
>   w   gnus-summary-stop-page-breaking

I use `b' _all_ the time (usually to view a picture or attached patch
file); I know about the K... bindings too, but `b' is just much more
convenient, especially for one-handed browsing (no jokes now :-).

-Miles
-- 
`To alcohol!  The cause of, and solution to,
 all of life's problems' --Homer J. Simpson

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Apr 15 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> `v' is the only one (beside `y') that is left in all important Gnus
>> modes (group, summary, server).
[...]

> I use `u'.

`!' is much more easy to remember because the mark is also `!'.
gnus-summary-tick-article-forward [...] is bound to u, !, M !, M t.
What a waste of key bindings.  :-)

> Here's an idea: How about if we unbind a couple of the blatantly silly
> single-letter bindings in the summary buffer now (`i' and `w' being
> excellent candidates) so that we can bind them at a later point (say,
> a few years) to more exciting commands?  In that case I would have no
> reservations about handing the `v' over to the users. 

Excellent!

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Key prefix reserved for users in Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> `!' is much more easy to remember because the mark is also `!'.
> gnus-summary-tick-article-forward [...] is bound to u, !, M !, M t.
> What a waste of key bindings.  :-)

`u' is easier to type.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen