Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Sorry to keep pounding on this same subject by being sneaky and
slipping the same question with different subject.

I did not get any help I could use from previous post so here goes
again with an update of sorts, although it still acts the same as
reported earlier.

I've used a specific gmail account and have it incorporated into
gnus.  Been so for a few yrs. (called acc1 onward)

I recently added a new account (called acc2 onward)

So I incorporate acc2 into gnus with this in .gnus:

<Note that names and passwords obfuscated to simplify reading>

-------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
      '((nnml ""))) 

(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnimap "acc1"
                                  (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")))

(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
                 	     '(nnimap "acc2"
 		              (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")))

<Note that the accs do have different names and passwds>
-------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 

And this in .authinfo

machine imap.gmail.com login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
machine imap.gmail.com login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
-------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 

But, gnus copies all the mail from acc1 and reports it in acc2,
creating a host of folders and so forth that are actually only in
acc1.

Now, this seems like a fairly dangerous thing for gnus to do.

Please someone help me solve it.

Here is what I've done so far:

1) Made double sure that the accs do in fact have different names and
   passwds on gmail.
2) Made double sure that the details in .authinfo are totally
   accurate. 
3) Stripped any reference to acc2 out of .newsrc.eld (with gnus closed
   of course)
4) Did a 'git pull' on gnus so am running the latest version.

Finally, restarted gnus.  But once again it pulls all mail and groups
from acc1 and shows it as belonging to acc2.  Yikes... this is bad.

What else can I do to debug this?

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Alberto Luaces]

Harry Putnam writes:

> Sorry to keep pounding on this same subject by being sneaky and
> slipping the same question with different subject.

[...]

Sorry but I have to insist: what is the value of your gnus-select-method
variable? Can you change to nnnil to see if it makes a difference?

-- 
Alberto

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> writes:

> Harry Putnam writes:
>
>> Sorry to keep pounding on this same subject by being sneaky and
>> slipping the same question with different subject.
>
> [...]
>
> Sorry but I have to insist: what is the value of your gnus-select-method
> variable? Can you change to nnnil to see if it makes a difference?

Very sorry, I posted another 'secondary select' (nnml) instead of your
requested 'select method'.  Didn't read closely enough. Here it is.:

   (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))

Won't setting that to nnnil raise heck with my nntp groups?

I'm reluctant to try that without setting up a full sandbox.
Something that would take a bit of time, unless you can confirm that
setting nnnil will not slaughter my existing setup. 

Not asking for a promise or guarantee...just confirmation that you've
done this when your setup contained many nntp groups and had been
using 'nntp' as the value of gnus-select-method for years.

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Joseph Mingrone]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))
>
> Won't setting that to nnnil raise heck with my nntp groups?
>

This works for me.

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil))
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nntp "news.gmane.org")))
(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnimap "gmail"
             (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")
             (nnimap-server-port 993)
             (nnimap-stream ssl)
             (nnir-search-engine imap)
             (nnimap-authinfo-file "~/.authinfo.gpg")
             ;; press 'E' to expire email
             (nnmail-expiry-target "nnimap+gmail:[Gmail]/Trash")
             (nnmail-expiry-wait "immediate")))

Hope this helps,

Joseph

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>:

> Won't setting that to nnnil raise heck with my nntp groups?

All of the state for the NNTP groups for all servers, is in the .newsrc
and .newsrc.eld files, so if you copy them to a safe place you should be
able to restore the behaviour after any experimentation you do.

Note: The exact location of the .newsrc* files depends on the OS in use
and the settings used (eg. on windows the location depends on whether or
not the environment variable HOME has been set, and it can also be
explicitly configured in elisp), so make sure you copy the right file.

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Alberto Luaces]

Harry Putnam writes:

> Alberto Luaces writes:
>
>> Harry Putnam writes:
>>
>>> Sorry to keep pounding on this same subject by being sneaky and
>>> slipping the same question with different subject.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Sorry but I have to insist: what is the value of your gnus-select-method
>> variable? Can you change to nnnil to see if it makes a difference?
>
> Very sorry, I posted another 'secondary select' (nnml) instead of your
> requested 'select method'.  Didn't read closely enough. Here it is.:
>
>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))
>
> Won't setting that to nnnil raise heck with my nntp groups?
>
> I'm reluctant to try that without setting up a full sandbox.
> Something that would take a bit of time, unless you can confirm that
> setting nnnil will not slaughter my existing setup. 
>
> Not asking for a promise or guarantee...just confirmation that you've
> done this when your setup contained many nntp groups and had been
> using 'nntp' as the value of gnus-select-method for years.
>

Ok, it was just for making sure that the main select method was not set
to anything strange, or another imap server.  In the rest of the thread,
it seems most likely that the problem is in your .authinfo definition,
so I wouldn't try to change gnus-select-method unless it was the very
last resource...

-- 
Alberto

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> writes:


[...]

> Ok, it was just for making sure that the main select method was not set
> to anything strange, or another imap server.  In the rest of the thread,
> it seems most likely that the problem is in your .authinfo definition,
> so I wouldn't try to change gnus-select-method unless it was the very
> last resource...

OK, got it... thanks

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Eric S Fraga]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> And this in .authinfo
>
> machine imap.gmail.com login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
> machine imap.gmail.com login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap

I used to have two gmail accounts.  The trick, for me, was to give
machines different names:

machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com ...
machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com ...

given the nnimap entries you have defined in your .gnus.el file.  The
actual IMAP server has already been specified using nnimap-address.

Not sure if this would make any difference in your case but it may be
worth trying?

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 + Ma Gnus v0.8 + evil 1.0-dev
: BBDB version 3.02 ($Date: 2013/04/13 13:39:40 $)

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> And this in .authinfo
>>
>> machine imap.gmail.com login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
>> machine imap.gmail.com login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
>
> I used to have two gmail accounts.  The trick, for me, was to give
> machines different names:
>
> machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com ...
> machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com ...
>
> given the nnimap entries you have defined in your .gnus.el file.  The
> actual IMAP server has already been specified using nnimap-address.
>
> Not sure if this would make any difference in your case but it may be
> worth trying?

Haven't tried your suggestion yet.  But want to get clarity on something.


Enrico Schumann <es@enricoschumann.net> writes:

[...]

> You could try to change .authinfo like this:
>
> machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
> machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
>
>
> (That worked for me with several IMAP accounts with the same
> nnimap-address, but that was not gmail.)

Same thing to clarify here.

Do you mean like so:

('password xxxxxxxx' has been elided to shorten)

 machine loginname1 login loginname1@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes
 machine loginname2 login loginname2@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes

That is, NOT giving a fully qualified hostname as argument to `machine'?

or do you mean this:

 machine loginname1@gmail.com login loginname1@gmail.com [...]
 machine loginname2@gmail.com login loginname2@gmail.com [...]

That is, using the full email address in two places.  Again NOT a
qualified IP address.

Sorry if this seems weak...

I think I better post the actual lines leaving out the password and
final arguments and you guys show me exactly what you are suggesting.

  machine imap.gmail.com login hputnam3@gmail.com
  machine imap.gmail.com login harrygp3@gmail.com 

Those are the actual lines... How would you edit them?

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>:

> Do you mean like so:

> ('password xxxxxxxx' has been elided to shorten)

>  machine loginname1 login loginname1@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes
>  machine loginname2 login loginname2@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes

> That is, NOT giving a fully qualified hostname as argument to `machine'?

Not "loginname" but, as Adam said, the short name of the host in the
config.  The loginname isn't used in qualifying the line in .authinfo,
but both the nnimap-address and the server name.

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Enrico Schumann]

On Thu, 23 May 2013, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

[...]

>
> Enrico Schumann <es@enricoschumann.net> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> You could try to change .authinfo like this:
>>
>> machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
>> machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
>>
>>
>> (That worked for me with several IMAP accounts with the same
>> nnimap-address, but that was not gmail.)
>
> Same thing to clarify here.
>
> Do you mean like so:
>
> ('password xxxxxxxx' has been elided to shorten)
>
>  machine loginname1 login loginname1@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes
>  machine loginname2 login loginname2@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes
>
> That is, NOT giving a fully qualified hostname as argument to `machine'?

Yes.  In my setup, I have several IMAP accounts set up like so:

  (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
               '(nnimap "IMAP1"
                        (nnimap-address "xxxx.de")
                        ;....))
  (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
               '(nnimap "IMAP2"
                        (nnimap-address "xxxx.de")
                        ;....))

So the names "IMAP1", "IMAP2" &c. of these servers are not hostnames
(the addresses are specified via 'nnimap-address').

In the .authinfo file, the 'machine' field gets the name of the server,
ie,

  machine IMAP1 login xxx ....
  machine IMAP2 login zzz ....


(I should not here that I use Gnus v5.13 in Emacs 23.3.1.)


Regards,
   Enrico

-- 
Enrico Schumann
Lucerne, Switzerland
http://enricoschumann.net

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Enrico Schumann <es@enricoschumann.net> writes:

> Yes.  In my setup, I have several IMAP accounts set up like so:
>
>   (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>                '(nnimap "IMAP1"
>                         (nnimap-address "xxxx.de")
>                         ;....))
>   (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>                '(nnimap "IMAP2"
>                         (nnimap-address "xxxx.de")
>                         ;....))
>
> So the names "IMAP1", "IMAP2" &c. of these servers are not hostnames
> (the addresses are specified via 'nnimap-address').
>
> In the .authinfo file, the 'machine' field gets the name of the server,
> ie,
>
>   machine IMAP1 login xxx ....
>   machine IMAP2 login zzz ....



I'll admit I'm still a bit confused here. Isn't IMAP1 IMAP2 here
intended to mean the user ID?, in the secondary-select lines?

But in the .authinfo lines you call them 'servers' so are there
actually imap servers named after the user IDs?

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Enrico Schumann]

On Sat, 25 May 2013, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Enrico Schumann <es@enricoschumann.net> writes:
>
>> Yes.  In my setup, I have several IMAP accounts set up like so:
>>
>>   (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>                '(nnimap "IMAP1"
>>                         (nnimap-address "xxxx.de")
>>                         ;....))
>>   (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>                '(nnimap "IMAP2"
>>                         (nnimap-address "xxxx.de")
>>                         ;....))
>>
>> So the names "IMAP1", "IMAP2" &c. of these servers are not hostnames
>> (the addresses are specified via 'nnimap-address').
>>
>> In the .authinfo file, the 'machine' field gets the name of the server,
>> ie,
>>
>>   machine IMAP1 login xxx ....
>>   machine IMAP2 login zzz ....
>
>
>
> I'll admit I'm still a bit confused here. Isn't IMAP1 IMAP2 here
> intended to mean the user ID?, in the secondary-select lines?
>
> But in the .authinfo lines you call them 'servers' so are there
> actually imap servers named after the user IDs?
>
>

I think others are more knowdledgeable than I about Gnus terminology.
IMAP1 and IMAP2 are server names as far as Gnus is concerned.  But for
Gnus, a server is not necessarily one specific physical server.  From
the manual (chapter 6, "Select Methods"):

  "[...] a select method is a list where the first element says what back
  end to use (e.g., nntp, nnspool, nnml) and the second element is the
  server name. [...] One could say that a select method defines a virtual
  server---so we do just that (see section 6.1 Server Buffer)."

So every email account that is set up in the way described above
corresponds to one server for Gnus.  In the *Server* buffer, which you
reach by pressing ^ in the *Group* buffer, you should see something like
this, then:

     {nnimap:IMAP1} (opened)
     {nnimap:IMAP2} (opened)

It is then up to the backend (nnimap in this case) to connect to the
actual, physical server.  See the description of nnimap in the manual,
also chapter 6.


-- 
Enrico Schumann
Lucerne, Switzerland
http://enricoschumann.net

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 17:59:09 -0400 Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote: 

HP> I'll admit I'm still a bit confused here. Isn't IMAP1 IMAP2 here
HP> intended to mean the user ID?, in the secondary-select lines?

HP> But in the .authinfo lines you call them 'servers' so are there
HP> actually imap servers named after the user IDs?

Gnus servers are not the same as hostnames, unfortunately.  They are
really configuration entries that describe how to make a connection and
hold all the data related to the connection.

Ted

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Eric S Fraga]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>>
>>> And this in .authinfo
>>>
>>> machine imap.gmail.com login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
>>> machine imap.gmail.com login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
>>
>> I used to have two gmail accounts.  The trick, for me, was to give
>> machines different names:
>>
>> machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com ...
>> machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com ...
>>
>> given the nnimap entries you have defined in your .gnus.el file.  The
>> actual IMAP server has already been specified using nnimap-address.
>>
>> Not sure if this would make any difference in your case but it may be
>> worth trying?
>
> Haven't tried your suggestion yet.  But want to get clarity on something.
>
>
> Enrico Schumann <es@enricoschumann.net> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> You could try to change .authinfo like this:
>>
>> machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
>> machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
>>
>>
>> (That worked for me with several IMAP accounts with the same
>> nnimap-address, but that was not gmail.)
>
> Same thing to clarify here.
>
> Do you mean like so:
>
> ('password xxxxxxxx' has been elided to shorten)
>
>  machine loginname1 login loginname1@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes
>  machine loginname2 login loginname2@gmail.com [...] port imap force yes

No: loginname1 and loginname2 are not actually login names but the names
you gave for each of the nnimap settings, which is why I wrote "acc1"
and "acc2" in the above lines as they are what you told gnus to call
your accounts.

I think you are getting confused by "machine" in all of this.  The
actual host that will be queried, and to which the login and password
information will be passed, is specified in the nnimap configuration as
nnimap-address.  The machine entry here is just a label as far as gnus
is concerned.

Try it and see.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 + Ma Gnus v0.8 + evil 1.0-dev
: BBDB version 3.02 ($Date: 2013/04/13 13:39:40 $)

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Harry Putnam]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> I think you are getting confused by "machine" in all of this.  The
> actual host that will be queried, and to which the login and password
> information will be passed, is specified in the nnimap configuration as
> nnimap-address.  The machine entry here is just a label as far as gnus
> is concerned.

Yes indeed.  I've been taking 'machine' to equate with host.

Which it appears to do in my regular nntp server lines in .authinfo
(Not in use now) like this:

'machine enews.newsguy.com login reader password xxxxxxx'

And the corresponding gnus-select-method

;(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "enews.newsguy.com"))

So, is that also incorrect in that case?

Re: Still pounding nnimap and odd gmail behavior

[Enrico Schumann]

On Thu, 23 May 2013, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:


[...]

> And this in .authinfo
>
> machine imap.gmail.com login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
> machine imap.gmail.com login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap
> -------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 

You could try to change .authinfo like this:

machine acc1 login acc1@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes
machine acc2 login acc2@gmail.com password xxxxxxxx port imap force yes


(That worked for me with several IMAP accounts with the same
nnimap-address, but that was not gmail.)

Regards,
        Enrico                


-- 
Enrico Schumann
Lucerne, Switzerland
http://enricoschumann.net