A way to mark off enclosed messages?

A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Dave Abrahams]

So, iOS has a "broken" mail client: it doesn't show messages
that are forwarded as MIME without a MIME-decoding/MML step.  So if you
want your wife to be able to read forwarded emails on her iPad, you have
two choices:

1. forward the messages as non-MIME, in which case you get nice

   -------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
                        ...
   -------------------- End of forwarded message --------------------

   delimiters, but the message is not very useful on the other end except
   as plain text

2. you forward the messages as MIME with MML, but the iPad user doesn't
   get any delimiters to distinguish the enclosed message from the
   rest of what you wrote.  

Bad iOS!  I'd like to work around the problem by forwarding as MIME with
MML /and/ adding delimiters.  Is there a reasonably painless way to
achieve that?

Thanks!

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Greg Troxel]

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  So, iOS has a "broken" mail client: it doesn't show messages
  that are forwarded as MIME without a MIME-decoding/MML step.  So if you

I have noticed this too.  Do you mean

  attachments of type message/rfc822 are not displayed

and you are suggesting sending a message which is multipart/related and
has a text/html or multipart/alternative type instead of a
message/rfc822 type?

It sounds like gnus could grow a 'workaround-broken-ios' variable that
does forwards with a mime type that ios can handle, perhaps.

FWIW, another coping strategy is to resend rather than forward, but I
realize that's lame in the general case.

Have you filed a bug report with apple :-) ?

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Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Dave Abrahams]

on Wed Feb 01 2012, Greg Troxel <gdt-AT-work.lexort.com> wrote:

>   So, iOS has a "broken" mail client: it doesn't show messages
>   that are forwarded as MIME without a MIME-decoding/MML step.  So if you
>
> I have noticed this too.  Do you mean
>
>   attachments of type message/rfc822 are not displayed

Possibly.  I am somewhat MIME-illiterate, so that might be a more
accurate description of the problem, but I don't know.

> and you are suggesting sending a message which is multipart/related and
> has a text/html or multipart/alternative type instead of a
> message/rfc822 type?

I'm suggesting that I have two possible settings that work when
forwarding to iOS users:

    message-forward-as-mime: nil
    message-forward-show-mml: nil

and 

    message-forward-as-mime: t
    message-forward-show-mml: t

> It sounds like gnus could grow a 'workaround-broken-ios' variable that
> does forwards with a mime type that ios can handle, perhaps.
>
> FWIW, another coping strategy is to resend rather than forward, but I
> realize that's lame in the general case.

Yes, I realize all that.  The point of my posting was that I want to use
the 2nd set of settings above and still get delimiters.  Is there a way?

> Have you filed a bug report with apple :-) ?

No; I wouldn't know where to start.  Even if I could find the right
channel, it sounds like you are more qualified than I to do it, since
you have a better grasp of MIME.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Edward O'Connor]

> So, iOS has a "broken" mail client: it doesn't show messages
> that are forwarded as MIME without a MIME-decoding/MML step.

Have you filed a bug with Apple?

http://bugreport.apple.com/

If you do, please let me know the Radar # so I can track it.


Thanks,
Ted

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:

> Bad iOS!  I'd like to work around the problem by forwarding as MIME with
> MML /and/ adding delimiters.  Is there a reasonably painless way to
> achieve that?

I'm not quite sure what you mean.  Do you want to forward the message as
MIME, but, er, add new textual MIME parts that look like

   -------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
   -------------------- End of forwarded message --------------------

around the message/rfc822 part?  I don't really see how that would help
any?  I mean, if the iOS reader can't view message/rfc822 parts, the iOS
reader can't view message/rfc822 parts, no matter what you put in the
text/plain parts...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Dave Abrahams]

BoostPro Computing * http://boostpro.com
[Sent from coveted but awkward mobile device]
--

On Feb 2, 2012, at 4:07 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:
> 
>> Bad iOS!  I'd like to work around the problem by forwarding as MIME with
>> MML /and/ adding delimiters.  Is there a reasonably painless way to
>> achieve that?
> 
> I'm not quite sure what you mean.  Do you want to forward the message as
> MIME, but, er, add new textual MIME parts that look like
> 
>   -------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
>   -------------------- End of forwarded message --------------------
> 
> around the message/rfc822 part?  

That would work

> I don't really see how that would help
> any?  I mean, if the iOS reader can't view message/rfc822 parts, the iOS
> reader can't view message/rfc822 parts, no matter what you put in the
> text/plain parts...

The iOS reader *can* view message/rfc822 parts; it's just that they are presented to the user with no visible distinction from the other text in the outer message body. I can add delimiters manually of course, but it's cumbersome and I'm likely to forget.  

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:

> The iOS reader *can* view message/rfc822 parts; it's just that they
> are presented to the user with no visible distinction from the other
> text in the outer message body.

Oh, I see.  Just like how Gnus does it, and it's the proper way, I
think.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:13:23 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LI> Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:
>> The iOS reader *can* view message/rfc822 parts; it's just that they
>> are presented to the user with no visible distinction from the other
>> text in the outer message body.

LI> Oh, I see.  Just like how Gnus does it, and it's the proper way, I
LI> think.  :-)

It should be separated if the user wants that, so there is a visible
distinction.  MIME is not very presentable.

Ted

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> It should be separated if the user wants that, so there is a visible
> distinction.

That can be configured by the person on the reading side.  I mean, in
Gnus...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:35:01 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> It should be separated if the user wants that, so there is a visible
>> distinction.

LI> That can be configured by the person on the reading side.  I mean, in
LI> Gnus...

It can't, in iOS.

It's not difficult to insert these extra markers, right?  They are just
MIME marker embellishments?  Or will they break something?  Seems no
worse than a "here's the attachment" comment right above an attachment.

Ted

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> It's not difficult to insert these extra markers, right?  They are just
> MIME marker embellishments?

No, MIME markers are never shown.

> Or will they break something?  Seems no worse than a "here's the
> attachment" comment right above an attachment.

The request was to add "now an attachment will follow" and then "you
have just seen an attachment" afterwards.  I don't really see the
point.

An email reader is for reading email, not debugging the internal MIME
structure.  I'm happy to see that the iOS mail reader programmers take
the same approach towards reading email that I do.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:32:22 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LI> The request was to add "now an attachment will follow" and then "you
LI> have just seen an attachment" afterwards.  I don't really see the
LI> point.

OK.  Dave Abrahams can insert a function in the before-send-hook I guess.

LI> An email reader is for reading email, not debugging the internal MIME
LI> structure.  I'm happy to see that the iOS mail reader programmers take
LI> the same approach towards reading email that I do.

OK.

Ted

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Dave Abrahams]

on Mon Feb 06 2012, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:
>
>> The iOS reader *can* view message/rfc822 parts; it's just that they
>> are presented to the user with no visible distinction from the other
>> text in the outer message body.
>
> Oh, I see.  Just like how Gnus does it

Is that an imperative?

> , and it's the proper way, I think.  :-)

That's fine; I'm not complaining that there's a bug in Gnus.  I want to
surround my message enclosures with some markers anyway.  Is there a
reasonably easy way for me to do it?

Thanks,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Re: A way to mark off enclosed messages?

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:

> I want to surround my message enclosures with some markers anyway.  Is
> there a reasonably easy way for me to do it?

Sure.  Just defadvise `mml-insert-empty-tag' to insert whatever text you
want before and after what it inserts.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome