Any one here who has mastered placing groups as disired in topic mode

[reader <reader@newsguy.com>]

I've always had trouble making Topic groups showup where I want them.
Seems like you should be able to goto a tgroup where you want the new
one to be under it... place cursor just under that tgroup then create
the new one.  Having it appear just under right where you cursor was.

Or at least some other method the works consistently:

In the enclosed groups screen

-------       -------       ---=---       -------       ------- 
[ Gnus -- 401598 ]
  [ nnml -- 212 ]
         1: nnml:jtan.keep
         1: nnml:amazon
        30: nnml:zfs-discuss
         1: nnml:synchronybnk
         3: nnml:optumrx
       106: nnml:oi-discuss
         3: nnml:greystone_tr
         2: nnml:all-but-cron_
    [ archive -- 16 ]
      [ mail -- 6 ]...
      [ news -- 10 ]...
    [ proc-spamrel -- 49 ]...
-------       -------       ---=---       -------       -------

I'd like the last one showing (proc-spamrel) to appear just below and
one level lower than `nnml'.  But you see where it appears if I start
just below nnml and create that tgroup.

True enough that it is one step lower than `nnml' but how to make it
show up right below the list when `nnml' is unraveled? Just below
   `nnml:all-but-cron'
in the group screen above.

Seems I could remove `archive' temporarily then create `proc-spamrel'
but when there are more groups on the same level as `archive' seems
like it would be easy to do more harm than good like risk loosing a
tgroup.

Can anyone share some tips on how to get tgroups where you want them.
I know about T-tab but it seems to have the same effect. If I create
`proc-spamrel' on the same level as `nnml' then T-tab one level down
it still ends up in the same position as shown above.

I've used Topic mode for quite a long time so have tried many things
never hitting on something very handy.

Currently I'm trying to recreate a Topic look and placement that I
totally destroyed a while ago.  So there is quite a bit of fiddling to
do.