From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/88310 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Brent Busby Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Converting TOFU into something less unreasonable Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:42:26 -0600 Organization: The James Franck Institute Message-ID: <8xxwonl97st.fsf@jfi.uchicago.edu> References: <871s602kh7.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87lg43xfwz.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <871s5u6con.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87r2duiwku.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> <8736qamhfu.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87y382l2qq.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> <87pnteuky6.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <878t01lvyd.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1546522855 11405 195.159.176.226 (3 Jan 2019 13:40:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:40:55 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M36520@lists.math.uh.edu Thu Jan 03 14:40:51 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.208]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gf3Ex-0002tz-A5 for ding-account@gmane.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:40:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by lists1.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gf3Gs-0005Cb-An; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:42:50 -0600 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by lists1.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gf3Gn-00059r-GG for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:42:45 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gf3Gl-0003V1-BU for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 07:42:45 -0600 Original-Received: from jfimail.uchicago.edu ([128.135.10.37]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gf3Gj-00061t-Ol for ding@gnus.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:42:41 +0100 Original-Received: from jfimail (jfimail.uchicago.edu [128.135.10.37]) by jfimail.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2140BB5F4C1B for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 07:42:40 -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jfi.uchicago.edu Original-Received: from jfimail.uchicago.edu ([128.135.10.37]) by jfimail (jfimail.uchicago.edu [128.135.10.37]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8wGp8adf3BTo for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 07:42:39 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from village (c-67-175-41-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net [67.175.41.16]) by jfimail.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 773F1B5F4C2F for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 07:42:39 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <878t01lvyd.fsf@tullinup.koldfront.dk> ("Adam \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Sj\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?\=C3\=B8gren\=22's\?\= message of "Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:19:54 +0100") X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:88310 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adam Sj=C3=B8gren writes: > I've had people think I forgot to write anything, because they could not > see my reply before the quoted text. This happens to me constantly also. And that really is the problem -- not the debate about whether traditional quoting is functional or not, but the user astonishment when they see it for the first time. They think it's you who does not know who to use email, and yes, one common form of that is to think that you sent them an empty reply. Even trimming the message down to only the relevant parts makes them think you're some kind of screwball. It doesn't help that aside from Thunderbird, there do not seem to be any commonly used GUI mailreaders that even allow you to traditional quote without doing a lot of hand-editing, and even Thunderbird doesn't do it by default. It's become almost entirely something people using terminal based mailreaders like Gnus, Alpine, Mutt, etc. do, because only they have software that gives you much of a choice about it. What are we supposed to tell the vast masses of people that will only use a large GUI mailreader? You must use Thunderbird (with a non-default reply quotes setting), because it's the law? =2D-=20 + Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys + Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will + University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of + James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, + Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEE9U2VYkjghZBPQ2fODYoMhip6u7UFAlwuEUMACgkQDYoMhip6 u7WONgwAkR59lrifU71SDTRRv/wqcXgXM7Mgg6rdw+bu0hGKpLrEm6tslyt2dnLm 6/lsG3wI2VZZ9ttq7k284hTvwLnXCybCqcGVSbqVBab6kkspB7TdXUROI9Fj4GJJ mxjkSXgRzE44ab7KwrJPvh4lnFXqGMvBN17aegE6XHw9FMlusFrZmWzhplN9iJby lB5w+O7zSrfBWyM0osVKKpuSiTuC3ET6cB1Y66mSewvEwTNWuYFkED+ve5bNZTvr 7sO4fKhwmun3sdZHqfNuDA/1TopeekrmSbYAds4PuuRPAx1zYD5UtJKeNtXJRQ6q Y0O9dEpZgp+eY1/C3+gPvSDwRzMMjm6GizCV5dj6P3Q8EIAptypkrUK8CF/bENFq DTS6iwxYg2djPdL2NVoHnIoKlSH5jRepkcSXesZ9MBF0cXluSYpL7cL3JMp4y3JC FVth1bE24V/GK8gqraXAxoeNjUjbGur33cJz0L916b+MkuYtFbLn18YpfYL+fGdc K2F2IndH =1Y03 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--