Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

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Actually i like Gnus very much. Gnus is my eternity in computing. All the time i play Gnus when i am with Chromebook at home. 

But now i am subway. So i do question with android smartphone. 

I like basic citation style. However i did discover some citation style at Gmane web (attached file). That gave me endless impression. Yah! I want it! How can i set it my dot.gnus.el?

Thanks for adVance!

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 감사합니다_^))//

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Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

"Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)"
<soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes:

> I like basic citation style. However i did
> discover some citation style at Gmane web
> (attached file). That gave me endless
> impression. Yah! I want it! How can i set it
> my dot.gnus.el?

That is the normal citation style which is
supplied by default.

In an article buffer, use
`gnus-article-followup-with-original' (or the
`F' key) to get a head start.

Otherwise mark the text you'd like to "citify"
and then press `M-;' (for `comment-dwim').

-- 
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Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
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Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo]

Emanuel Berg writes: 
 
> "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes: 
> 
>> I like basic citation style. However i did discover some 
>> citation style at Gmane web (attached file). That gave me 
>> endless impression. Yah! I want it! How can i set it my 
>> dot.gnus.el? 
> 
> That is the normal citation style which is supplied by default. 
 
That is not the normal style. The default is to have 
message-citation-line-function as message-insert-citation-line, 
which produces:  "Name" <email> writes:  Byung-Hee is even saying 
that he likes that style but wants the other, the one that they 
attached. If I understand correctly, they want something like:  In 
article "article from origin", "Name" <email> writes:  And besides 
that, to have the email addresses masked with <at> instead of @. 
For that message-citation-line-function needs to be set to 
your-own-citation-style-function. I do not know what the 
information referring to the article actually is, but this could 
get you started:  #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
  (defun your-own-citation-style-function ()
    (let* ((from (mail-header-from message-reply-headers))
            (data (gnus-extract-address-components from))
            (name (car data))
            (email (cadr data))
            (masked-email (replace-regexp-in-string "@" " <at> " 
            email)))
      (insert (concat "In article XXX, "
                       name
                       " <"
                       masked-email
                       "> writes:"))
      (newline)))
  
  (setq message-citation-line-function
        'your-own-citation-style-function)
#+END_SRC

Best,
-- 
Jorge.

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

jorge.alfaro-murillo@yale.edu (Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo) writes:

> Emanuel Berg writes: 
>
>> "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes: 
>>
>>> I like basic citation style. However i did discover some citation
>>> style at Gmane web (attached file). That gave me endless
>>> impression. Yah! I want it! How can i set it my dot.gnus.el? 
>>
>> That is the normal citation style which is supplied by default. 
>
> That is not the normal style. The default is to have
> message-citation-line-function as message-insert-citation-line, which
> produces:  "Name" <email> writes:  Byung-Hee is even saying that he
> likes that style but wants the other, the one that they attached. If I
> understand correctly, they want something like:  In article "article
> from origin", "Name" <email> writes:  And besides that, to have the
> email addresses masked with <at> instead of @. For that
> message-citation-line-function needs to be set to
> your-own-citation-style-function. I do not know what the information
> referring to the article actually is, but this could get you started:
> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
>  (defun your-own-citation-style-function ()
>    (let* ((from (mail-header-from message-reply-headers))
>            (data (gnus-extract-address-components from))
>            (name (car data))
>            (email (cadr data))
>            (masked-email (replace-regexp-in-string "@" " <at> "
> email)))
>      (insert (concat "In article XXX, "
>                       name
>                       " <"
>                       masked-email
>                       "> writes:"))
>      (newline)))
>  (setq message-citation-line-function
>        'your-own-citation-style-function)
> #+END_SRC
>
> Best,

Really you are best! i'll test it tomorrow!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

jorge.alfaro-murillo@yale.edu (Jorge A.
Alfaro-Murillo) writes:

> That is not the normal style. The default is
> to have message-citation-line-function as
> message-insert-citation-line, which produces:
> "Name" <email> writes: Byung-Hee is even
> saying

OK, that! I wouldn't call that a "style"
because it appears only once! But why not - in
that case, this is the function that does it -

    (defun message-insert-citation-line ()
      "Insert a simple citation line."
      (when message-reply-headers
        (insert (mail-header-from message-reply-headers) " writes:")
        (newline)
        (newline)))

- which is in:

    /usr/share/emacs/24.4/lisp/gnus/message.el

The OP will have to write a function that
constructs the desired outcome, and then
replace it, much like Indiana Jones with the
pouch of sand and the golden idol!

I already have a couple of functions to do that:

    ;; This file: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/match-data-format.el

    (defun make-match-list (num string)
      (let ((match (match-string num string)))
        (when match (cons match (make-match-list (1+ num) string) ))))

    (defun match-data-format (data match format-str)
      (save-match-data
        (string-match match data)
        (apply (function message) format-str
      (make-match-list 1 data)) ))

    ;; This file: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/gnus/article.el

    (defun gnus-article-header-value (header)
      "Get the value of HEADER for the current article."
      (with-current-buffer gnus-original-article-buffer
        (gnus-fetch-field header) ))

So using those function, it can be done like
this - only problem is, do really all "From"
headers look the same?

    (defun goofy-citation-line ()
      (let*((message-id (gnus-article-header-value "Message-ID"))
            (from       (gnus-article-header-value "From"))
            (from-mail  (match-data-format from "\\(.*\\) ("   "<%s>"))
            (from-name  (match-data-format from ".*(\\(.*\\))" "%s"))
            (all        (format "In %s, %s %s writes:\n\n" message-id from-name from-mail))
            (all-no-at  (replace-regexp-in-string "@" " <at> " all)) )
        (insert all-no-at) ))
  
--
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Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo]

Emanuel Berg writes: 

> jorge.alfaro-murillo@yale.edu (Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo) writes: 
> 
>> That is not the normal style. The default is to have 
>> message-citation-line-function as message-insert-citation-line, 
>> which produces: "Name" <email> writes: 
> 
> OK, that! I wouldn't call that a "style" because it appears only 
> once!

That is what the OP called it.

> The OP will have to write a function that constructs the desired 
> outcome, and then replace it

:-) That's exactly what I said: 

>> For that message-citation-line-function needs to be set to 
>> your-own-citation-style-function.

> I already have a couple of functions to do that

So does message.el, the variable message-reply-headers contains a 
vector with the headers:

[number subject from date id references chars lines xref extra]
 
> So using those function, it can be done like this - only problem 
> is, do really all "From" headers look the same?

If "From" headers are in RFC-822 there are already functions to 
deal with that, one of them is gnus-extract-address-components 
that I mentioned in the previous message. Another one is 
mail-extract-address-components.

>     (defun goofy-citation-line ()
>       (let*((message-id (gnus-article-header-value 
>       "Message-ID"))

Better to use (mail-header-id message-reply-headers)

>             (from (gnus-article-header-value "From"))
>             (from-mail (match-data-format from "\\(.*\\) (" 
>             "<%s>"))
>             (from-name (match-data-format from ".*(\\(.*\\))" 
>             "%s"))

Better to use cadr and car of (gnus-extract-address-components 
(mail-header-from message-reply-headers)).

>             (all (format "In %s, %s %s writes:\n\n" message-id
>                          from-name from-mail))

Better to use (newline) at the end instead of inserting \n, to 
respect use of hard-newlines. This is important in message mode if 
one wants format=flowed.

Best,
-- 
Jorge.

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

jorge.alfaro-murillo@yale.edu (Jorge A.
Alfaro-Murillo) writes:

> ... better to use (newline) at the end
> instead of inserting \n, to respect use of
> hard-newlines. This is important in message
> mode if one wants format=flowed.

OK, so now most definitely the OP has enough
material to present a qualified attempt at
solving his problem! Until then I'll lay low :)

Good luck!

-- 
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Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

In article <86oa5u7fgc.fsf (at) student.uu.se>,
Emanuel Berg <embe8573 (at) student.uu.se>
writes:

> OK, so now most definitely the OP has enough
> material to present a qualified attempt at
> solving his problem! Until then I'll lay low
> :)

OK, I take that back! Seeing how easy it would
be to complete JAAMs function, I couldn't
resist doing it (actually I didn't try to
resist it).

I already tried it on my previous message - see
the first three lines of this message - is that
what you (the OP) had in mind?

Note that I did (at) instead of <at> because
there are already angle brackets on the outside
so it looks strange to have them on the inside
as well <i.e. <nested>, like that> - anyway
this can be changed easily enough...

By the way, what is the reason for knowing the
message ID? Can you do anything interesting
with that information? If so, what?

Here is the function:

(defun citation-style-function ()
  (let*((id           (mail-header-id   message-reply-headers))
        (from         (mail-header-from message-reply-headers))
        (from-data    (gnus-extract-address-components from))
        (name         (car  from-data))
        (email        (cadr from-data))
        (citation-string (format "In article %s, %s <%s> writes:"
                                 id name email) )
        (masked-string (replace-regexp-in-string "@" " (at) "
                                                 citation-string) ))
    (insert masked-string)
    (newline)
    (newline) ))

(setq message-citation-line-function 'citation-style-function)

-- 
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Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

Emanuel Berg [embe8573(a)student.uu.se] writes:

> In article <86oa5u7fgc.fsf (at) student.uu.se>,
> Emanuel Berg <embe8573 (at) student.uu.se>
> writes:
>
> ...

What do you think of this one? (I mean the
first line, not the citation which happens to
contain one as well.) Looks kinda' good, ey? :)

By the way, is the OP's "citation style" what
is called the "attribution line" in the
Gnus source? E.g., line 117, in:

    /usr/share/emacs/24.4/lisp/gnus/gnus-cite.el.gz

Only remaining obstacle changing it is the
regexp setting the face must change as well!
On the other hand, keeping the attribution line
simple and the regexp detecting it is simple
as well!

And the function producing it? I'd say,
pretty simple!

(defun citation-style-function ()
  (let*((from            (mail-header-from message-reply-headers))
        (from-data       (gnus-extract-address-components from))
        (name            (car  from-data))
        (email           (cadr from-data))
        (citation-string (format "%s [%s] writes:" name email))
        (masked-string   (replace-regexp-in-string "@" "(a)"
                                                   citation-string) ))
    (insert masked-string)
    (newline)
    (newline) ))
(setq message-citation-line-function 'citation-style-function)

From: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/gnus/article.el

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> By the way, what is the reason for knowing the
> message ID? Can you do anything interesting
> with that information? If so, what?

Sure.  Message-IDs are pseudo-unique, so you should be able to jump to a
message by its ID.  Gnus’ built-in function to do that is called
‘gnus-summary-refer-article’.

By the way, that’s why is so important to preserve IDs intact all its
way.  And that is exactly what ‘news.gnu.org’ mail-to-news gateway, that
you are familiar to, fails to do; so when one posts a reply to an
article on, for example, ‘gnu.emacs.help’ newsgroup, subscribers of
‘help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org’ mailing list receive broken threads (but not
the vice versa).

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Dmitry Alexandrov]

Dmitry Alexandrov <321942@gmail.com> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:
>
>> By the way, what is the reason for knowing the
>> message ID? Can you do anything interesting
>> with that information? If so, what?
>
> Sure.  Message-IDs are pseudo-unique, so you should be able to jump to a
> message by its ID.  Gnus’ built-in function to do that is called
> ‘gnus-summary-refer-article’.

Of course, it does not work with IDs that were obfuscated by
substitution of ‘@’ with anything else.

Not to insult anyone, but I would of call this a good example of magical
thinking.  As we all know, a tradition to remove ‘@’ from email
addresses, published on the Web, dates back to the times when spammers
were strong and spam filters were weak.

However: a) email message is not a web page, all addresses are
nonetheless provided in its headers in the best possible way; b)
Message-ID is not an address, it’s completely useless for any mail
harvesting bot.

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

Dmitry Alexandrov writes:

> Of course, it does not work with IDs that
> were obfuscated by substitution of ‘@’ with
> anything else.

Hey, you can always write a function that
obfuscates them back to their original form :)

> However: a) email message is not a web page,
> all addresses are nonetheless provided in its
> headers in the best possible way;

There are archives which include the entire
body but not the headers! So if you put the
mail in the body and the archive doesn't
'obfuscates" it, it'll show!

> b) Message-ID is not an address, it’s
> completely useless for any mail
> harvesting bot.

Yeah, actually will it not work the other way
around? By keeping the "@", spam-spiders will
think it a mail and waste time/resources
sending a mail to it?

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

Dmitry Alexandrov [321942(a)gmail.com] writes:

> Sure. Message-IDs are pseudo-unique, so you
> should be able to jump to a message by its
> ID. Gnus’ built-in function to do that is
> called ‘gnus-summary-refer-article’.

OK, I always did that by using the summary
directly, but why not?

> By the way, that’s why is so important to
> preserve IDs intact all its way. And that is
> exactly what ‘news.gnu.org’ mail-to-news
> gateway, that you are familiar to, fails to
> do; so when one posts a reply to an article
> on, for example, ‘gnu.emacs.help’ newsgroup,
> subscribers of ‘help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org’
> mailing list receive broken threads (but not
> the vice versa).

I have heard many people talk about that
gateway, but I have never seen the actual
software or heard of any efforts to debug it.

Instead of being hysterical about people using
gnu.emacs.help, which is a good thing, the
efforts should be focused at solving the
problem, which (again, according to what I've
heard), isn't with gnu.emacs.help but with
the gateway.

"Use the source, Luke!"

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

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In Article <86eg6q7eb5.fsf@student.uu.se>,
 Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> _님_ 쓰시길:

> In article <86oa5u7fgc.fsf (at) student.uu.se>,
> Emanuel Berg <embe8573 (at) student.uu.se>
> writes:
> [...snip...]
> By the way, what is the reason for knowing the
> message ID? Can you do anything interesting
> with that information? If so, what?
>
> Here is the function:
>
> (defun citation-style-function ()
>   (let*((id           (mail-header-id   message-reply-headers))
>         (from         (mail-header-from message-reply-headers))
>         (from-data    (gnus-extract-address-components from))
>         (name         (car  from-data))
>         (email        (cadr from-data))
>         (citation-string (format "In article %s, %s <%s> writes:"
>                                  id name email) )
>         (masked-string (replace-regexp-in-string "@" " (at) "
>                                                  citation-string) ))
>     (insert masked-string)
>     (newline)
>     (newline) ))
>
> (setq message-citation-line-function 'citation-style-function)

This is final replying. 
For couple days, i did test and test and so on.
Finally i did clean up my dot.gnus.el (attached file).

Well it is not easy why i like such style. 
Just i like very much such style, just just ...

Thank you for many times many reply, indeed..

Sincerely,


[-- Attachment #2: my dot.gnus.el --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 1764 bytes --]

;;; 위치: ~/.gnus

;; 전자메일 식별자 기본 사항
; The "yw" is special pseudo-initial.
; It means the root(s) for everything 
;  as "YeonWon (연원, 淵源)". 
; It's appeared X-Google-Original-From line. 
(setq user-full-name "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)")
(setq user-mail-address "soyeomul@yw.doraji.xyz")

;; 모든 메시지를 뉴스그룹에서 볼거에요~
(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))

;; 읽었던 메시지들을 계속 보이도록 할거에요~
(setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t) 

;; 보내기 전 한번 더 생각해보아요~
(setq message-confirm-send t)

;; 좋아하는 메시지 헤더를 적어보아요~
(setq gnus-visible-headers
      '("^From:" "^Subject:" "^Date:"
	"^Newsgroups:" "^To:" "^Cc"
	"^X-Newsreader:" "^User-Agent:" "^X-Mailer:"
	"^Organization:" "^Message-ID:"))

;; Special Citation Style~
; References:
;  <URL:http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/87133>
; Thanks to:
;  [1] Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo <jorge.alfaro-murillo@yale.edu>
;  [2] Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se>
;  [3] Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org>
;  [4] Dmitry Alexandrov <321942@gmail.com>
(defun special-citation-style ()
  (let*((mid (mail-header-id message-reply-headers))
        (from (mail-header-from message-reply-headers))
        (citation-string (format "In Article %s,\n %s _님_ 쓰시길:"
				 mid from)))
    (insert citation-string)
    (newline)
    (newline)))
(setq message-citation-line-function 
      'special-citation-style)

;; User-Agent!
; 기본값: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux)
(setq gnus-user-agent "The Gnus <ding@gnus.org>")

;; The next hop is sSMTP for outbond relay.

;;; 마지막 갱신: 2016년 7월 21일
;;; Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 47 bytes --]


-- 
^고맙습니다 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Emanuel Berg]

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

> This is final replying. For couple days,
> i did test and test and so on. Finally i did
> clean up my dot.gnus.el (attached file).

It is better to supply the relevant source code
(yank it into the message), or, if it is a lot
of code and/or dependent on several other
files, to supply the URL(s).

Also, I'd recommend to use English only in
your source.

> Well it is not easy why i like such style.
> Just i like very much such style, just just
> ...

You'll learn that there are people who have
spent years configuring even smaller details
into much weirder things. It is nothing I'd
recommend tho unless you enjoy it :)

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Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
                   - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles -                   

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)"
> <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes:
>
>> I like basic citation style. However i did
>> discover some citation style at Gmane web
>> (attached file). That gave me endless
>> impression. Yah! I want it! How can i set it
>> my dot.gnus.el?
>
> That is the normal citation style which is
> supplied by default.
>
> In an article buffer, use
> `gnus-article-followup-with-original' (or the
> `F' key) to get a head start.
>
> Otherwise mark the text you'd like to "citify"
> and then press `M-;' (for `comment-dwim').

What i wanted is as below:

     "In article <your-message-id>, you writes:"

many many thanks!

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Endless impression~ Gnus' citation style..

[Andreas Schwab]

"Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes:

> I like basic citation style. However i did discover some citation style at Gmane web (attached file). That gave me endless impression. Yah! I want it! How can i set it my dot.gnus.el?

Customize message-citation-line-function and
message-citation-line-format.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
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"And now for something completely different."