sendmail -f: evil or not?

sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

My mails come out with an "authentication warning" header that says:

 X-Authentication-Warning: mraz.iskon.hr: hniksic set sender to hniksic@iskon.hr using -f

Why is sendmail complaining?  I was told I should set myself a
"trusted user", but I don't understand why I should be required to do
so.  I guess I could set `message-sendmail-f-is-evil' to t, but I'm
not sure if I want to do that.

So what's supposed to happen here?  Why does Gnus use `-f' by default,
and why doesn't my sendmail like it?

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> So what's supposed to happen here?  Why does Gnus use `-f' by default,
> and why doesn't my sendmail like it?

Gnus uses -f for hysterical raisins -- some installations require it,
and almost none choke on it, although a bunch will throw warnings at
you.

If it gives you a warning, you should probably switch it off.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Lars> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

>> So what's supposed to happen here?  Why does Gnus use `-f' by default,
>> and why doesn't my sendmail like it?

Lars> Gnus uses -f for hysterical raisins -- some installations require it,
Lars> and almost none choke on it, although a bunch will throw warnings at
Lars> you.

I don't get it: -f means Gnus assumes the sendmail installation is
buggy.  However, in most setups (which use a mail domain different
from the local hostname), Gnus passes the *wrong* argument to sendmail
-f in absence of further configuration of `user-mail-address'.

-f should be off by default.

-- 
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes:

> I don't get it: -f means Gnus assumes the sendmail installation is
> buggy.  However, in most setups (which use a mail domain different
> from the local hostname), Gnus passes the *wrong* argument to sendmail
> -f in absence of further configuration of `user-mail-address'.

It's what Pine does, so it must be right.  :-)

I can flip the default if that would help.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Russ Allbery]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber) writes:

>> I don't get it: -f means Gnus assumes the sendmail installation is
>> buggy.  However, in most setups (which use a mail domain different from
>> the local hostname), Gnus passes the *wrong* argument to sendmail -f in
>> absence of further configuration of `user-mail-address'.

> It's what Pine does, so it must be right.  :-)

> I can flip the default if that would help.

However you go with this, I'd really prefer to have Gnus use -f if a
specific user-mail-address is set.  I'd rather have my envelope sender set
to the address that matches my current "personality"; I really like that
feature.

So as long as it's easy for me to turn that on....

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Florian Weimer]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

> However you go with this, I'd really prefer to have Gnus use -f if a
> specific user-mail-address is set.  I'd rather have my envelope sender set
> to the address that matches my current "personality"; I really like that
> feature.

Well, I'd like to see Gnus to use a magic header in the outgoing
message to set "-f" parameter.  This can be useful if you're
subscribed to several closed mailing lists with different addresses.

If there aren't any objections, I'm going to implement it.

BTW: Russ, did you ever get my message about the INN/reiserfs bug?

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Rupa Schomaker]

Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.cygnus.argh.org> writes:

> Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
> 
> > However you go with this, I'd really prefer to have Gnus use -f if a
> > specific user-mail-address is set.  I'd rather have my envelope sender set
> > to the address that matches my current "personality"; I really like that
> > feature.
> 
> Well, I'd like to see Gnus to use a magic header in the outgoing
> message to set "-f" parameter.  This can be useful if you're
> subscribed to several closed mailing lists with different addresses.
> 
> If there aren't any objections, I'm going to implement it.

This is already done using posting-styles and address.  Though I
suppose there can be other ways to do it...

-- 
-rupa

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Florian Weimer]

Rupa Schomaker <rupa-list+gnus@rupa.com> writes:

> This is already done using posting-styles and address.  Though I
> suppose there can be other ways to do it...

Ah, I see.  Thanks.  The last time I looked at this feature,
I had to instruct someone by phone to copy the definition of
message-send-mail-with-sendmail to his .emacs file and change the
appropriate parts. ;)

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Russ Allbery]

Rupa Schomaker <rupa-list+gnus@rupa.com> writes:
> Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.cygnus.argh.org> writes:

>> Well, I'd like to see Gnus to use a magic header in the outgoing
>> message to set "-f" parameter.  This can be useful if you're
>> subscribed to several closed mailing lists with different addresses.

>> If there aren't any objections, I'm going to implement it.

> This is already done using posting-styles and address.  Though I suppose
> there can be other ways to do it...

Right, that's how I do it currently.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Lars> sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes:

>> I don't get it: -f means Gnus assumes the sendmail installation is
>> buggy.  However, in most setups (which use a mail domain different
>> from the local hostname), Gnus passes the *wrong* argument to sendmail
>> -f in absence of further configuration of `user-mail-address'.

Lars> It's what Pine does, so it must be right.  :-)

Don't get me started on Pine ... :-)

Lars> I can flip the default if that would help.

It would!

-- 
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Russ Allbery]

Michael Sperber <sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> writes:
>>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Lars> It's what Pine does, so it must be right.  :-)

> Don't get me started on Pine ... :-)

We hates it, we do... hates it forever.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Stephen Zander]

>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
    Russ> We hates it, we do... hates it forever.

Why, what did its got in its pockets?

:)

-- 
Stephen

"So if she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood."... "And
therefore?"... "A witch!"

Re: sendmail -f: evil or not?

[Amos Gouaux]

>>>>> On 23 Apr 2000 09:51:06 +0200,
>>>>> Michael Sperber <sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> (ms) writes:

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Lars> I can flip the default if that would help.

ms> It would!

If this is done, it might be helpful to document that if folks set
"address" in a posting-style, they'll likely need to use the `-f'
flag as well. 

Amos