From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/67730 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kenichi Handa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: gnus should accept UTF8 even if UTF-8 is standard Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:17:14 +0900 Message-ID: References: <87iqruvs19.fsf@jidanni.org> <86od1mj3z2.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86od1lg3xq.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87d4i1iqpq.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <86k5c9fzm9.fsf@lifelogs.com> <878wsph5xr.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <87wsg345oo.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <86wsg2546l.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86abct3o4s.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1225505860 6070 80.91.229.12 (1 Nov 2008 02:17:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 02:17:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com, ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 01 03:18:41 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Kw64W-00078t-Mr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:18:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58814 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kw63P-00010p-Lv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:17:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kw63J-00010g-Pd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:17:25 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kw63H-00010T-Tu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:17:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60804 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kw63H-00010Q-Ma for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:17:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.aist.go.jp ([150.29.246.133]:57266) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kw63F-0004FQ-FW; Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:17:21 -0400 Original-Received: from rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp (rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp [150.29.254.115]) by mx1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id mA12HFs0015495; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:17:15 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: from smtp1.aist.go.jp by rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id mA12HFXa010155; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:17:15 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: by smtp1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id mA12HESl015901; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:17:14 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: from handa by etlken.m17n.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kw638-0007Iz-Hk; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:17:14 +0900 In-reply-to: (rms@gnu.org) User-Agent: SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.2 (Yagi-Nishiguchi) APEL/10.2 Emacs/23.0.60 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:105231 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:67730 Archived-At: In article , "Richard M. Stallman" writes: > In the case of filenames, there surely exist the actual file > with those ignored extensions. But, in the case of coding > systems, such an alias as "utf8" doesn't exist. Or do you > still propose to make such an alias as a sencond-class name > in advance? > To define them as second-class extensions would be one method. > Another is this: `read-coding-system' could create the completion > alist, then add to it modified entries made by replacing "utf-8" with > "utf8". Then it could read the name, using the appropriate kind of > completion. When it gets back the value from `completing-read', it > could replace "utf8" with "utf-8". > This avoids having a list of second-class "utf8" aliases. Those > aliases would be constructed automatically from the valid names > that start with "utf-8". > If so, I strongly oppose to it. > Why, what harm would it do? With that, people think that "utf8" is a valid coding system name, and will write a code something like this: (decode-coding-string STR 'utf8) and found that it signals an error because utf8 is not statically declared as an alias. > If we are > going to allow users to type all names that are accepted by > iconv, we must make so many aliases. > I don't know which names are accepted by iconv, so I don't know > whether I'm in favor of accepting them all. > But suppose that we decide to accept them all, and suppose we decide > to do it by defining each one as a second-class alias. How many > second-class aliases would that require? For instance, "% iconv -l", lists these variants for iso-8859-1: "ISO-8859-1", "ISO88591" "8859_1", "ISO_8859-1" In addition, we must add (partial) lowercase versions. Partial means something like this: Iso ISo isO And, as we also have to add "-dos", "-unix", "-mac" variatants. So total aliases we'll add are more than 100 just for iso-8859-1. And, the "iconv" program actualy accepts any pattern matching with "iso[^a-zA-Z0-9]8859-1"; e.g. "iso 8859-1", "iso=8859-1", etc. Considering them, it is not realistic to have all aliases statically. --- Kenichi Handa handa@ni.aist.go.jp