From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/68769 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: rfc2047.el dependencies on mm-util.el Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:21:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87eisjjrsc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87iqhsr8jm.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87my73kwxc.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87eisdol9i.fsf_-_@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248045757 26832 80.91.229.12 (19 Jul 2009 23:22:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Reiner.Steib@gmx.de, tzz@lifelogs.com, ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: ding-owner+M17189@lists.math.uh.edu Mon Jul 20 01:22:29 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MSfi7-0006HG-SI for ding-account@gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:22:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MSfhD-0006Ws-5W; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:21:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MSfhB-0006Wa-LT for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:21:29 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MSfhA-0000DM-00 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:21:29 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1MSfhh-0003FZ-00 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:22:01 +0200 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MSfh5-0004qm-1u; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:21:23 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 19 Jul 2009 01:30:58 -0400) X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:68769 gmane.emacs.devel:112783 Archived-At: I'm not familar with those functions, but they don't look particularly unclear to me. If you can manage to understand them, can you please add comments explaining their code clearly? > Only part of mm-utils.el is closely related to rfc2047.el. That part > is what I am talking about here. It consists of the two functions > mm-find-mime-charset-region and mm-charset-to-coding-system, and their > subroutines and data. They're used in other places as well (basically to encode message bodies), so they don't really belong to rfc2047.el. I would not say they "belong to" it, but they are closely related to it. > I am going to move rfc20457.el outside Gnus to make it a regular part > of Emacs. It's been part of Emacs since Emacs-21. I am going to make it a regular part of Emacs -- no longer part of Gnus. And I don't think you can prevent the Gnus maintainers from distributing rfc2047.el along with Gnus. I have no wish to stop them. I'm concerned with what's in Emacs. How Gnus is distributed outside of Emacs is not the issue. This requires separating them from the rest > of mm-utils.el which will remain inside Gnus. It also requires making > them clean and understandable. Rather than focus on code-ownership, I'd rather we focus on this latter part: "clean and understandable". Part of making them clean and understandable is making the code not depend on Gnus. This won't stop Gnus from using these facilities. It could use them just as it uses any other Emacs facilities. Maybe one way to look at it is to split mm-utils.el into a part that deals with compatibility between different Emacsen (e.g. mm-string-to-multibyte) and the other that provides actual functionality (e.g. mm-find-mime-charset-region). That could be the first step. Then the next step is to make the second part clear and independent of Gnus. I'm still wondering why someone would want to do that since it seems pretty far from the goal of improving the user's experience. The goal is to move rfc2047.el outside of Gnus so that other parts of Emacs can use it without using Gnus.