From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/80297 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: RE: smtp crap Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:53:31 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8739f4kzp3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ipo0p1bc.fsf@stupidchicken.com><58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com><83botsf06d.fsf@gnu.org> <83k48cxj85.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318344859 10868 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2011 14:54:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:54:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, miles@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 16:54:14 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDdie-0001dY-Oh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:54:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55023 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDdid-0006ub-Qq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54998) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDdiW-0006uJ-HZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:54:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDdiS-0004Go-Gk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:54:04 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:16412) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDdiE-0004BC-Tu; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:53:47 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p9BErfCE009427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:53:43 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9BErdr5017127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:53:40 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt110.oracle.com (abhmt110.oracle.com [141.146.116.62]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9BErYqe003966; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:53:34 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.50.234) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:53:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcyIEvgXl49opKliQyKQbRYDObxGjwAEKwfw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4E945878.0028:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144892 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:80297 Archived-At: > > I'm okay with changing the default to mailclient-send-it on all > > platforms ;-) > > (Assuming we can eliminate the flaw that started this thread causing > repeatedly asking the debated question), the current behavior is > basically "before falling back on the mailclient-default, > please confirm that you indeed want to use mailclient?", so I > think it's a small price to pay to avoid pissing off long-time > Emacs MUA users. Have any "long-time Emacs MUA users" actually _requested_ this "feature"? I've asked this question several times in different forms, but gotten no answer. Is this a user-requested feature or just something that some Emacs developers dreamed up as a cool thing to do? If it _was_ requested by a user, how about polling the users in general, to find out what they think as a (sampled) population? And what about long-time NON-Emacs MUA users? (Tim is right to ask about the numbers/proportion of Emacs users who do NOT use Emacs for email. You are wrong to ignore them.) More importantly, what about newbie Emacs users, regardless of their MUA? But MOST importantly, what about reporting bugs with `emacs -Q'? That is the real problem here, and the one that you keep ignoring. Instead, you keep focusing on the problem of customization, which is, relatively speaking, no big deal (assuming you finish fixing the repeated-interrogation bugs). The problem of annoying, confusing, and slowing down users (not to mention provoking errors) who are only trying to _help_ us by reporting a bug is, yes, a BIG problem. I'm sorry you don't see it as such.