Re: What is happening in agentized groups?

[Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> This is getting confusing...  
>>    These are marked Undownloaded and have the `@' on them.
>>    For example, my current gnu.emacs.gnus, if openned with C-u
>>    while unplugged begins with:
>>
>> 1@  31-Dec [   0: Gnus Agent          ] [Undownloaded article 48094]
>>
>>    [...] snipped 1200+ just like it with consequtive numbers up to:
>>
>> 1@  31-Dec [   0: Gnus Agent          ] [Undownloaded article 49318]
>>
>>    Then I have the messages beginning:
>> 20O  30-Jan [  25: A. L. Meyers  ] back to the ... 49319
>>    up to:
>>  1R  25-Feb         [  40: Shankar Rao ... 50077
>>
>> None of the first group are on the server.  The lowest number on
>> the server is 48323
>>
>> I don't really follow the formula you listed, and haven't for probably
>> 2 yrs or more.  I do the fetching in batch mode with cron.  Which kind
>> of follows the formula I guess.  It has worked fine until recently.
>> Possibly since the patch you mention, not sure.
>
> If 48094 does not come from the server, check whether this number is
> from ~/News/cache/active or ~/News/agent/nntp/SERVER/agent.lib/active.

It comes from this entry in ~/News/agent/nntp/SERVER/agent.lib/active
gnu.emacs.gnus 50082 48094 y  (I guess)

>>> If you enter a group unplugged without step 2, some articles are shown
>>> as "Undownloaded article ???" in the summary buffer, because the NOV
>>
>> What situation would allow a user to enter without step 2?
>
> Suppose that the network is down after you type 'g'. The NOVs of some
> new articles aren't downloaded. But you still want to read some old
> downloaded articles in the group.  Of course, you don't want to mark
> those new articles as read because you didn't read them.

But it seems that if they don't show up in .overview then they should
simply be downloaded on the next fetch.  Why is a display in summary
buffer necessary?

>> Apparently I am missing step 2 in gnus view of things.  But this was
>> not happening until those `Undownloaded' entries started showing up.
>
> They didn't show up, so you may not notice the problem.
>
> [...]

[...]

> OK. I'll make an assumption that articles with numbers smaller than
> the first one Agent knows don't exist on the server.  However, this
> assumption doesn't hold for all cases. For example, quimby is covered
> by Gnus Agent. Some articles are expired on Agent, but they are still
> on quimby.  Anyway, we don't care old articles when unplugged.

Can expiration be made to remove the appropriate message numbers from
the list?

> The patch is submitted.

Thanks... But couldn't gnus just ask the server when `J s' is
happening, what the lowest number is, then remove those below that
number?

In the case of your example of quimby that would be none, but then the
list would get adjusted from expiry.

But I think, I'm not really getting why we need to see this list at
all. Maybe it could be something the user can ask to see, but isn't
shown by default.  I still  don't see the practicle reason for seeing
this list.