From: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 'Chong Yidong' <cyd@stupidchicken.com>,
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>,
ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: smtp crap
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:20:17 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <buoliss2m7y.fsf@dhlpc061.dev.necel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvhb3g2oca.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>>> As long as we don't have a better solution, yes it should be
>>> the default. And for Emacs-24 we won't have a better solution so it
>>> will be the default.
>>
>> So, this presumes that "smtp-using-user-prompted-info" is on average
>> more reliable than "use sendmail," even in the case where sendmail can
>> be invoked.
>
> I'd hope that any user who's not dead-set on using Emacs's smtpmail
> support will simply say "use mailclient". So the likelihood of wrong
> smtp setup should be rather low.
Hmm, remember, this issue applies to more than windows...
(I'm using debian and I got the question [repeatedly, though
the repetition is obviously a bug]).
Anyway, part of the problem is that I'm not really sure how prepared
people will be to answer that prompt when it unexpectedly pops up,-
even the initial y-or-n "use smtp?" question. Unexpected prompts
asking detailed technical questions without any explanation are not a
good recipe for success...
>> Is there data to back up this presumption?
>
> No. Especially given that the current prompt doesn't really offer
> mailclient as an option, so that needs to be fixed first.
mailclient is a windows-only option right?
How about in the gnu/linux case? Here the choice is (apparently)
between sendmail (or really "system MTA," often not really sendmail)
and the new smtp.
"sendmail" has been the default for ages, and even if it does the
wrong thing in some cases, has the advantage being the status quo:
people that use emacs either have either made sure that works, or have
learned to refrain from sending mail in emacs. This new prompt runs a
real risk of making things _worse_: people who have been sending email
from emacs for a long time, but aren't really familiar with the
details stand a real chance of answering it wrong, and unintentionally
misconfiguring emacs in a way that will cause mail to stop working.
So absent any data showing the new method would (or at least _might_)
improve things, isn't this change in behavior kind of dubious...?
-Miles
--
The car has become... an article of dress without which we feel uncertain,
unclad, and incomplete. [Marshall McLuhan, Understanding Media, 1964]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-10-11 4:20 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-10-08 2:02 Miles Bader
2011-10-08 4:14 ` Chong Yidong
2011-10-08 6:17 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-08 6:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-08 7:03 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-08 13:47 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-08 14:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-09 14:50 ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2011-10-09 23:58 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-10 11:19 ` Richard Riley
2011-10-08 14:38 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-09 5:53 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-10 21:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-10 22:05 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-10 22:08 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-10 22:12 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 3:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 5:38 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 4:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 5:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 7:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 12:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 13:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 15:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 17:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 18:51 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 19:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-11 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 22:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-11 20:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 14:53 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 16:00 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-10-11 16:24 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 21:21 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-11 22:00 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 22:41 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-11 22:54 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 22:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-11 23:11 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-12 0:01 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-12 8:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-12 14:04 ` Jason Rumney
2011-10-12 14:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-12 1:30 ` Chong Yidong
2011-10-12 3:22 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-12 4:50 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-12 6:33 ` joakim
2011-10-12 8:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-12 10:24 ` joakim
2011-10-12 11:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2011-10-12 9:12 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-10-12 14:16 ` Jason Rumney
2011-10-12 14:34 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-10-12 14:47 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-12 15:21 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-10-12 11:29 ` Juanma Barranquero
2011-10-12 8:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-10-08 8:17 ` David Engster
2011-10-08 8:52 ` Bastien
2011-10-08 12:36 ` Miles Bader
2011-10-08 14:10 ` Harry Putnam
2011-10-10 21:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-10 22:06 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-10-11 3:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-10 22:08 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 0:34 ` Miles Bader
2011-10-11 3:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 4:20 ` Miles Bader [this message]
2011-10-11 5:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-11 5:38 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 5:38 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-11 5:38 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-26 17:58 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-26 18:14 ` Adam Sjøgren
2011-10-26 21:48 ` chad
2011-10-26 22:32 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-26 23:13 ` chad
2011-10-27 0:08 ` Drew Adams
2011-10-27 2:51 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-10-27 0:23 ` Tim Cross
2011-10-27 1:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-10-09 1:28 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2011-10-09 6:06 ` Miles Bader
2011-10-09 14:55 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2011-10-08 2:08 Miles Bader
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